RayLeblancArt Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 Has anyone had a chance to figure out the new skin shader yet? I have been messing around with it, getting strange glow issues. She is to scale, unless the default scale has changed between 14 and 15, has a texture map in diffuse color. I tossed a clay shader on the eye and mouth geometry for now, I thought maybe the glow was coming from the default grey material at first somehow. Skin at default density subsurface settings: Added one zero to all subsurface density settings: I decided to open up the old file I was working on in H14 so I don't look like a complete idiot here, and I see this: Looks appalling in the viewport, but renders out OK lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RayLeblancArt Posted October 20, 2015 Author Share Posted October 20, 2015 Kept cranking up the density settings, got rid of most of the glow, but it starts getting noisy, and getting facet artifacts. Also, I can see a seem(right behing ear, goes all the way up the skull) that doesn't appear to be there if using the mantra surface to build up the shader. Really a shame, as the new skin preset did render a lot faster than mantra surface preset with multiple scatter SSS. Here is a new one I slapped together with mantra surface, not tweaked much, but showing no facets or seem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RayLeblancArt Posted October 20, 2015 Author Share Posted October 20, 2015 (edited) Another angle on the two shaders.New SSS Old SSS It's possible I screwed up a setting to make it faceted, but I am not sure of a shader setting that could cause it. Both shaders have the same diffuse, displacement and specular maps, the lights are not changed at all, only thing changed is shader and camera angle.Oh, on a side note, she doesn't look all sandpapery in the view port with either shader applied, like when I opened up the one I started in H14 lol. Edited October 20, 2015 by RayLeblancArt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amm Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 Here's is how is looking on 1unit = 10cm ratio. Used only point color for diffuse, rest is default. Got unexpected sharp reflections, as in yours 'new sss', when tried to modulate reflections by intensity of point color. "Glow' in your pics looks like result of unwanted intersections, perhaps shader does not expect these small distances. As usually, number of nested nodes is huge, I think I'll will end up in reality, again with some brutal simplification. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tar Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 As usually, number of nested nodes is huge, I think I'll will end up in reality, again with some brutal simplification. This would be cool to post up an optimised version. On a side note, I think your critiques of Houdini over at the SI forums to be probably the best out there. Would be cool to have them over here if we could all keep it civil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest mantragora Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 Would be cool to have them over here if we could all keep it civil. I told him couple times, that he should also post more questions on SESI forum too, because this would also help devs, instead of just moan how bad Houdini is on a forum that no one from SESI devs visits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amm Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 (edited) Thank you guys - but, freqently it don't end up in civil way. Know that, beacuse I think I'm 'owner' of one negative about Softimage ICE, after dozens of prasing posts on, now not-existant SI Net. Had some score on POV-Ray mailing lists in 90', too. Just feels more familiar on SI-community. Anyway it is never too late. Back to skin shader, of course it's different story, to provide something usable to everyone, instead of personal hack for particulars. Will try to see what's causing that suddenly sharp reflection, looks like only serious issue, for now. Edited October 20, 2015 by amm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RayLeblancArt Posted October 21, 2015 Author Share Posted October 21, 2015 Worst thing about any SSS shader is you have to adjust it for every different lighting scenario Would be nice to have shaders that just looked perfect no matter what lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tar Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 Worst thing about any SSS shader is you have to adjust it for every different lighting scenario Would be nice to have shaders that just looked perfect no matter what lol. Doesn't 'Path Tracing' offer a ground truth for this? Path Tracing Simulate subsurface scattering by path tracing through it as a volume. This options is slow and noisy but will produce the most accurate results - so it may be used to produce ground truth images for comparison with the other techniques. /nodes/vop/physicalsss Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaron Auty Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 Looks like the new skin shader is a .hda using three physicalsss nodes with energy conservation at the end. (Divided by 3!) A quick test, and I am getting close to what I was getting in H14. (Although a little faster?) Are you rendering as a subD? Fused points? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RayLeblancArt Posted October 21, 2015 Author Share Posted October 21, 2015 (edited) Doesn't 'Path Tracing' offer a ground truth for this? /nodes/vop/physicalsss Hmmmmm, possibly. It's pretty fast, but is noisy at 1 quality. I am gonna crank up the quality and let it go while I sleep, see what happens. I had been led to believe ray trace was the bast setting, but it seems worth a shot at least. That is what I got with a mantra surface shader, with pathtracing on quality setting 1, took 7 min 20 seconds. I got rid of my other bad lighting setup, put in a sky and sun for the lighting, and a hdri map just for reflections for now. Actually, the quality setting doesn't seem to do anything at all, keep getting the same result in about the same time, and I cranked it up to 100,000 quality last test I did. That is weird. Edited October 21, 2015 by RayLeblancArt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RayLeblancArt Posted October 21, 2015 Author Share Posted October 21, 2015 Looks like the new skin shader is a .hda using three physicalsss nodes with energy conservation at the end. (Divided by 3!) A quick test, and I am getting close to what I was getting in H14. (Although a little faster?) Are you rendering as a subD? Fused points? No subd, not entirely sure about the fused points to be honest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tar Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 Thanks for testing the path-tracing, H13 was the last time I was trying it out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RayLeblancArt Posted October 22, 2015 Author Share Posted October 22, 2015 (edited) You got me curious about all the different models, wasn't sure if this forum is supposed to be SFW or not, so stuck with an upper bust shot for this series. Lit with a sun and sky along with an HDRI affecting only reflections. Only thing changed is the SSS model between shots. Point cloud render took 6 minutes 41 seconds Local BRDF took 8 minutes 30 seconds BRDF + Point cloud took 9 minutes 12 seconds http://i.imgur.com/1aq6HZb.jpg Full Raytraced took 9 minutes 59 seconds Raytraced took 10 minutes 53 seconds It surprised me full raytracing was almost a minute faster than raytracing, the name made me think full raytracing would be the longest of the series. Tomorrow I plan to test all models in other lighting situations. Next I plan to get back to trying to crack the nut on the new skin shader setup again.To my untrained eye, local BRDF seems to look the best, though there really doesn't seem to be a huge difference between them with this even bright lighting setup. Edited October 22, 2015 by RayLeblancArt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RayLeblancArt Posted October 22, 2015 Author Share Posted October 22, 2015 This series is with point light directly behind, and hdri reflection. BRDF 02 minutes 36 seconds Point cloud 02 minutes 42 seconds BRDF + point cloud 03 minutes 16 seconds full raytraced 07 minutes 11 seconds raytrace 07 minutes 28 seconds Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RayLeblancArt Posted October 22, 2015 Author Share Posted October 22, 2015 This series is only a distant light pointing straight down. The sphere on the right has the bottom half blasted to see if hollow geometry makes a big difference or not. With default shader New skin shader with default settings: For the experiment I turned off reflections totally, figured would be better to just isolate the SSS and see what does what. I turned all SSS density to 0, seems when you do that, not even the diffuse color shows up. Shallow density 1 Shallow density 10 Shallow density 100 Shallow density 1000, going up to 10000 had the exact same result. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tar Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 Would be nice to see examples like this in the manual- the skin shader page is simply text! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest mantragora Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 the skin shader page is simply text! You need to put the light source behind monitor to see the rest of the help page. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RayLeblancArt Posted October 22, 2015 Author Share Posted October 22, 2015 You need to put the light source behind monitor to see the rest of the help page. Haha! The tooltip popup thingies when you hover over a parameter could use some detail as well as the help page Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RayLeblancArt Posted October 22, 2015 Author Share Posted October 22, 2015 (edited) Next up, just medium color. I turned it to the same default pink color as the shallow. Density 1 Density 10 (forgot to record times until now, in case anyone is interested in that). Took 2 minutes 16 seconds 100 medium density, took 2 mins 13 seconds 1000 medium density took 2 min 10 sec Same story, cranking it up to 10000 seems to do nothing at all. Edited October 22, 2015 by RayLeblancArt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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