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RayLeblancArt

New Skin Shader

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Has anyone had a chance to figure out the new skin shader yet? I have been messing around with it, getting strange glow issues. She is to scale, unless the default scale has changed between 14 and 15, has a texture map in diffuse color. I tossed a clay shader on the eye and mouth geometry for now, I thought maybe the glow was coming from the default grey material at first somehow. 

 

Skin at default density subsurface settings:

TFz95sr.jpg

 

 

Added one zero to all subsurface density settings:

 

NblSMU5.jpg

 

 

I decided to open up the old file I was working on in H14 so I don't look like a complete idiot here, and I see this:

 

57tJLph.jpg

 

 

Looks appalling in the viewport, but renders out OK lol

 

Y9gq14I.jpg

 

 

 

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Kept cranking up the density settings, got rid of most of the glow, but it starts getting noisy, and getting facet artifacts. Also, I can see a seem(right behing ear, goes all the way up the skull) that doesn't appear to be there if using the mantra surface to build up the shader.

rpJ7VYQ.jpg

 

Really a shame, as the new skin preset did render a lot faster than mantra surface preset with multiple scatter SSS. Here is a new one I slapped together with mantra surface, not tweaked much, but showing no facets or seem

7YsPNAQ.jpg


 

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Another angle on the two shaders.
New SSS

0UF8ljZ.jpg

 

Old SSS

 

z83tkoT.jpg

 

 

 

It's possible I screwed up a setting to make it faceted, but I am not sure of a shader setting that could cause it. Both shaders have the same diffuse, displacement and specular maps, the lights are not changed at all, only thing changed is shader and camera angle.


Oh, on a side note, she doesn't look all sandpapery in the view port with either shader applied, like when I opened up the one I started in H14 lol.

Edited by RayLeblancArt

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Here's is how is looking on 1unit = 10cm ratio. Used only point color for diffuse, rest is default. Got unexpected sharp reflections, as in yours 'new sss', when tried to modulate reflections by intensity of point color.  "Glow' in your pics looks like result of unwanted intersections, perhaps shader does not expect these small distances.

As usually, number of nested nodes is huge, I think I'll will end up in reality, again with some brutal simplification.mantra_skin.jpg

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Guest tar

 

As usually, number of nested nodes is huge, I think I'll will end up in reality, again with some brutal simplification.

 

 

This would be cool to post up an optimised version.

 

On a side note, I think your critiques of Houdini over at the SI forums to be probably the best out there. Would be cool to have them over here if we could all keep it civil. :)

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Guest mantragora

Would be cool to have them over here if we could all keep it civil. :)

 

I told him couple times, that he should also post more questions on SESI forum too, because this would also help devs, instead of just moan how bad Houdini is on a forum that no one from SESI devs visits.

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Thank you guys :) - but, freqently it don't end up in civil way. Know that, beacuse I think I'm 'owner' of one negative about Softimage ICE, after dozens of prasing posts on, now not-existant SI Net. Had some score on POV-Ray mailing lists in 90', too. Just feels more familiar on SI-community. Anyway it is never too late. :)

Back to skin shader, of course it's different story, to provide something usable to everyone, instead of personal hack for particulars.

Will try to see what's causing that suddenly sharp reflection, looks like only serious issue, for now.

Edited by amm

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Worst thing about any SSS shader is you have to adjust it for every different lighting scenario :(

Would be nice to have shaders that just looked perfect no matter what lol.

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Guest tar

Worst thing about any SSS shader is you have to adjust it for every different lighting scenario :(

Would be nice to have shaders that just looked perfect no matter what lol.

 

 

 

Doesn't 'Path Tracing' offer a ground truth for this?

 

 

Path Tracing

Simulate subsurface scattering by path tracing through it as a volume. This options is slow and noisy but will produce the most accurate results - so it may be used to produce ground truth images for comparison with the other techniques.

 

/nodes/vop/physicalsss

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Looks like the new skin shader is a .hda using three physicalsss nodes with energy conservation at the end. (Divided by 3!)

 

A quick test, and I am getting close to what I was getting in H14. (Although a little faster?)

 

Are you rendering as a subD? Fused points?

 

post-6391-0-85816900-1445390803_thumb.jp

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Doesn't 'Path Tracing' offer a ground truth for this?

 

/nodes/vop/physicalsss

Hmmmmm, possibly. It's pretty fast, but is noisy at 1 quality. I am gonna crank up the quality and let it go while I sleep, see what happens. I had been led to believe ray trace was the bast setting, but it seems worth a shot at least.

 

2Fjq9mg.jpg

That is what I got with a mantra surface shader, with pathtracing on quality setting 1, took 7 min 20 seconds. I got rid of my other bad lighting setup, put in a sky and sun for the lighting, and a hdri map just for reflections for now.

 

Actually, the quality setting doesn't seem to do anything at all, keep getting the same result in about the same time, and I cranked it up to 100,000 quality last test I did. That is weird.

Edited by RayLeblancArt

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Looks like the new skin shader is a .hda using three physicalsss nodes with energy conservation at the end. (Divided by 3!)

 

A quick test, and I am getting close to what I was getting in H14. (Although a little faster?)

 

Are you rendering as a subD? Fused points?

No subd, not entirely sure about the fused points to be honest. 

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Guest tar

Thanks for testing the path-tracing, H13 was the last time I was trying it out. 

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You got me curious about all the different models, wasn't sure if this forum is supposed to be SFW or not, so stuck with an upper bust shot for this series. Lit with a sun and sky along with an HDRI affecting only reflections. Only thing changed is the SSS model between shots.

Point cloud render took 6 minutes 41 seconds

JCvvWh3.jpg

 

 

Local BRDF took 8 minutes 30 seconds

T9AiRgy.jpg

 

 

BRDF + Point cloud took 9 minutes 12 seconds

http://i.imgur.com/1aq6HZb.jpg

 

 

Full Raytraced took 9 minutes 59 seconds

sDXQZfd.jpg

 

Raytraced took 10 minutes 53 seconds

ZwH3BTe.jpg

 

 

It surprised me full raytracing was almost a minute faster than raytracing, the name made me think full raytracing would be the longest of the series. Tomorrow I plan to test all models in other lighting situations. Next I plan to get back to trying to crack the nut on the new skin shader setup again.

To my untrained eye, local BRDF seems to look the best, though there really doesn't seem to be a huge difference between them with this even bright lighting setup.

Edited by RayLeblancArt

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This series is with point light directly behind, and hdri reflection.

BRDF 02 minutes 36 seconds

dG1hnlG.jpg

 

 

 

Point cloud 02 minutes 42 seconds

mC0cLbS.jpg

 

 

 

BRDF + point cloud 03 minutes 16 seconds

DX3lfMC.jpg

 

 

 

full raytraced 07 minutes 11 seconds

ruJaGCN.jpg

 

 

 

raytrace 07 minutes 28 seconds

yZ7Woa3.jpg

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This series is only a distant light pointing straight down. The sphere on the right has the bottom half blasted to see if hollow geometry makes a big difference or not. 

With default shader

hIRAyLe.jpg

 

 

New skin shader with default settings:

1IQmLrE.jpg


For the experiment I turned off reflections totally, figured would be better to just isolate the SSS and see what does what.

 

I turned all SSS density to 0, seems when you do that, not even the diffuse color shows up.
LLy0Ff8.jpg


 

Shallow density 1

bsR3Wlr.jpg

 

 

 

Shallow density 10

fWolKxc.jpg

 

 

 

Shallow density 100

1zI1SuP.jpg

 

 

 

Shallow density 1000, going up to 10000 had the exact same result.

jFVH9Mo.jpg

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Guest tar

Would be nice to see examples like this in the manual- the skin shader page is simply text!

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Guest mantragora

 the skin shader page is simply text!

 

You need to put the light source behind monitor to see the rest of the help page.

  • Like 2

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You need to put the light source behind monitor to see the rest of the help page.

Haha!  

The tooltip popup thingies when you hover over a parameter could use some detail as well as the help page :D

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Next up, just medium color. I turned it to the same default pink color as the shallow.

 

Density 1

ewsjzMh.jpg

 

 

 

Density 10 (forgot to record times until now, in case anyone is interested in that). Took 2 minutes 16 seconds 
VMcAU9s.jpg

 

 

 

100 medium density, took 2 mins 13 seconds

T4G7O3c.jpg

 

 

 

1000 medium density took 2 min 10 sec
dZZvqIj.jpg

 

 

Same story, cranking it up to 10000 seems to do nothing at all.

Edited by RayLeblancArt

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