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How could I refine this interpenetration??

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10 minutes ago, Noobini said:

I'm testing if 'effective' strength is negative....is it infinite....that was my orig question

so fine if effective strength is -1 x 10000 = -10000...works

then i tested 1 x -10000 = -10000 doesn't work...

of course, the above assumes the effective strength is a product of SOP strength and DOP strength....but seems the assumption is wrong..

(no I have no interest in testing an insanely large positive number to see if it breaks, i'm testing a negative number that should NOT break)

its easy enough to see actually. if you go to geometry spreadsheet, under rbdpackedobject1 -> relInAffectors -> constrainnetwork1 -> constraintnetwork -> geometry you can see your current strength on each frame. As long as you set your strength in sops that dictates  the "effective" strength independently from the dop. if you however set strength in sops to be *= then it becomes invalid an return 0.0.

edit: you have to have the dopnet selected or be inside the dopnet

Edited by Jesper Rahlff

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in SOP f@strength = -1;

why am i setting it to *= ?

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wake up f1....help !!!!

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19 minutes ago, Noobini said:

in SOP f@strength = -1;

why am i setting it to *= ?

I am not saying you are setting it to =*

What I am saying is that I thought that IF one were to set strength *= 1 THEN it would act as a multiplier to the value in DOPS. - it is not.

so my conclusion: sops is overriding dops. You can confirm in the spreadsheet.

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my spreadsheet says SOP strength = -1, DOP strength = 10000

(no i'm not touching the *= funny business whatsoever)

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here's my conclusion (so far...)

01) if SOP strength is undefined, DOP strength works as is...positive is increasing strength, negative is unbreakable (even if say -0.000001)

02) if SOP strength is defined:

i) if DOP is negative, treat it as 1 (yes, say DOP = -0.00001 or -9999999, it is just treated as 1)

ii) if DOP is positive, use as is

then, effective strength =  SOP x DOP (if this product is negative, then it is unbreakable)

Edited by Noobini
• 1

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OMG  What t....

I turned on this post's notification but It wasn't activated omg ..

Thank your for you guy's helps

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4 minutes ago, rootboot00 said:

OMG  What t....

I turned on this post's notification but It wasn't activated omg ..

Thank your for you guy's helps

yeah, sincere apology for this waffle, I just wanted to know the meaning of SOP strength -1 and Effective strength...boy oh boy...

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12 hours ago, Noobini said:

here's my conclusion (so far...)

01) if SOP strength is undefined, DOP strength works as is...positive is increasing strength, negative is unbreakable (even if say -0.000001)

02) if SOP strength is defined:

i) if DOP is negative, treat it as 1 (yes, say DOP = -0.00001 or -9999999, it is just treated as 1)

ii) if DOP is positive, use as is

then, effective strength =  SOP x DOP (if this product is negative, then it is unbreakable)

that seems to be correct..

I tried the following:

sop strength = 10

dop strength = 10.

I assume the effective strength would be 100 and the shelf not breaking because the impact is only 61 at its highest which is at the end of the framerange. (48). this seems to be correct, as the shelf did not break.

now my question is why  the spreadsheet does not show the multiplied result of the strength rather  than just the sop value? the spreadsheet only shows the strength as being 10 and not the total effective strength. To make sure I did not read the dop strength only, I changed the dop strength to 100 and kept my sop strength at 10... my effective strength becomes 1000 but the spreadsheet still states 10. what gives? am I looking at the wrong spreadsheet data?

last test I did I set dop strength to 10 and sop strength to 6, giving me effective strength of 60. and sure enough as soon as impact value reaches 61 it breaks.  HOWEVER the spreadsheet still states that my strength is only 6.

spreadsheet: rbdpackedobject -> relInaffectors -> constraintnetwork1 -> constraintnetwork -> geometry, under primitives you find strength along with impact and constraint name etc.

@f1480187 maybe you know?

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agree...for the life of me I cannot find where the 'product' is in spreasheet...I can observe the breaking point and arrive at the conclusions above but cannot find where the effective strength is (I found the breaking point to be 69), maybe it's just calc on the fly and simply not stored in spreadsheet...

There is ONE scenario left that I haven't tested...(sorry for being anal)....and that is...if SOP strength is defined and it is = 0....

One last case to test...

Well that was easy....product = 0...done

However, if SOP is defined and = -1 (or simply negative) and DOP = 0, even tho the product is 0, the effective strength is....unbreakable

Edited by Noobini

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32 minutes ago, Noobini said:

maybe it's just calc on the fly and simply not stored in spreadsheet...

this could be true, however that is not very user friendly (and not how it should be), having to remember on your own where and if you applied any multiplication factors  outside of the dop. This could result in a lot of wrong information being used throughout at shot in production.

the strange thing is that it is displaying the sop strength and not the dop strength. you could argue that importing the sop data into the dop sim with a sop solver or simillar would be reasonable (expecting the spreadsheet only to show the DOP strength by default), but the fact that it is importing the sop strength and not adding the dop strength is strange..

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I can see BOTH SOP/DOP strength in spreadsheet..

here I've set SOP = 123, DOP = 456

Edited by Noobini

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7 minutes ago, Noobini said:

I can see BOTH SOP/DOP strength in spreadsheet..

what do you have selected to see that?

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30 minutes ago, Noobini said:

I can see BOTH SOP/DOP strength in spreadsheet..

here I've set SOP = 123, DOP = 456

right okay, yeah I have that as well. I would personally  expect that the strength under the  geometry would be the effective strength. Also because there is NO indication (at least to my knowledge) that those two numbers are in fact being multiplied. So unless you already know, how are you gonna get this information? The most confusing part to me is that we in sops set strength = value (and in any other context that means override, not multiply), and not strength *= value. if *= had been the case, then you would know that a multiplication is happening.

Edited by Jesper Rahlff
• 1

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it's in similar vein to the extrude Distance and Local control zscale.

The Distance is just a multiplier...effective extrusion is Distance x Local control zscale (or whatever custom attrib)

Can't remember where I got the multiplier for gluestrength from....too many videos...

(at least in the extrude, Local Distance Scale, helpcard is actually helpful...it says 'multiply')

(but I can see the help doc guy sitting there pondering..should I list all the cases for the 'product' of gluestrength ?...Naaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhh........luuuuuuuuunnnnnnch)

Edited by Noobini

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10 minutes ago, Noobini said:

it's in similar vein to the extrude Distance and Local control zscale.

The Distance is just a multiplier...effective extrusion is Distance x Local control zscale (or whatever custom attrib)

Can't remember where I got the multiplier for gluestrength from....too many videos...

(at least in the extrude, Local Distance Scale, helpcard is actually helpful...it says 'multiply')

none of the less,  I am glad we got this cleared up. I learned something and I guess that is the most important thing. Thanks for playing @Noobini

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