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caskal

Mouse causing hand wrist pain

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Hey guys,

Been working in front of a PC for 15 years and recently I started having pain on the hand wrist, wich is horrible, it extends to the arm.

I talked with a few colleages (they are mostly motion designers) and some of them told me they switched to Wacom, wich I use for Zbrush sculpting, but I don't imagine using Wacom all day as mouse, specially to plug nodes in Houdini.

Anybody has experience or any tips/solutions for this? I also saw Logitech has some Ergonomic mouses:

2019-03-15_06-03-15.thumb.png.71bf7dc1c68bfc60eb78e269d03b0d96.png

Would love to hear some experiences and tips

Thanks in advance

Cheers

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I found that if my wrist was banging against a hard surface, it hurts...alot....but a simple wristpad does the job....no pain at all

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Definitely go for a wacom. I've exclusively used a wacom for houdini for a many years now and it's just wonderful, and it's a lot faster getting around and laying down nodes than with a mouse ontop of being ergonomic. If I only have a mouse I can barely get anything done and it's just tedious, I don't know how you people do it. Get a wacom.

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Second the Wacom. I moved offices recently and used a mouse for a few days b/c I was too lazy to unpack. After the second day or so I unpacked a bunch of boxes and pulled out the Wacon. You'll love it. Made for Houdini.  

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Using a tablet for a non-painting/sculpting 3d program is a PITA. As a pen makes life much easier for painting/sculpting, so does a mouse for other tasks. There's a trade-off and fully embracing one, will leave you disadvantaged in certain areas. BTW, I'm using a Wacom tablet for sculpting daily and I also have a mouse next to it, which is irreplaceable for Houdini or other 3d programs IMO.

What you need to look for is the ergonomics of your desk and chair. I've designed myself my current desk and had it produced it by a furniture shop, so that it meets exactly my needs, as opposed to buying something pre-made.

The most important thing to keep in mind is the angle between your forearm and hand, that is, to keep them at a level that allows for a natural continuity between the forearm and the hand.

Mouse or pen, won't make much of a difference if you don't have an optimal height of the platform you're resting your hands on, defined by the desk itself and the chair you're sitting on.

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Third the Wacom.You won't go back to using mouse after that.

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Posted (edited)

yes, go for a good Wacom, takes 2-3 weeks to get used to it but after you won't go back, and it's much faster than a mouse for everything (and silent)
Sitting badly is also a source of wrist pain, try a standing desk.

 

Edited by bunker
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Posted (edited)

I use a wacom pen since the Windows 3.1/95 days when the tablet (called a "digitizer" back then) was huge (UD 1212 I think it was called, 12" x 12"), thick and clumsy as hell, the serial port a pita to set up and the driver was able to grind everything else to a halt when one moved it around quickly enough on those early PCs... ;-)

These days I have an Intuos 4 Medium. 

But yeah, no wrist or other problems at all, the pen really makes a difference and is much more natural and agile.

With the middle click on the second side button of the pen, I am using the mouse almost never, only in some weird software that doesn't deal well with the pen and shoots parameters through the roof when dragging a slider etc.. Not so many around of those anymore though.

For me using the pen never was an issue and it came naturally. But I know that for some people it does not click.
I think it partly has to do with the pasture, I hold the pen relatively upright with the index finger on the sidebutton. This way, when clicking with the tip, the pen does not slide.
I also have the tablet in front of me and the keyboard behind it, which works very well for me.
One also has to get comfortable with zooming with the available shortcuts instead of the mouse wheel, since reaching for that scroll-wheel thingy on the tablet is cumbersome.

And yeah, some things don't work so well, depending on the software. Like I always use the Tab key to open the node menu instead of the right mouseclick, since Houdini is overly sensitive to the slightest movement while clicking and one always moves a tiny bit when using the side button. But that doesn't really bother me, I find a mouse much more clumsy in many other ways.

Especially the direct positioning of the pointer to an absolute position is so much more muscle-memory friendly than the mouse shuffling.

Those alternative monster-mouse things didn't really convince me, even if they are supposed to be better for the hand - it's still moving around a brick... ;-)

I highly recommend finding solutions for the things that bother you with the pen, different settings, different pasture, different pens, tablet keys on the left or right, a different size tablet even. 
It's really worth it IMO.

Cheers,

Tom

Edit: And make sure you disable the frigging "Windows Ink" crap in the wacom driver, otherwise everything reacts like goo... ;-)

Edited by Thomas Helzle
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Posted (edited)

Hey guys,

Thanks a lot for the recommendations. @Noobini I put a cloth with cilinder shape over the weekend on my wrist and helped quite a lot. @McNistor I wish I had some custom furniture company here to make something like that, but for now I followed your advice about having the forearm at the same level as mouse desk and is also helping.

As for Wacom recommendations, I think is time to give a shot, I was holding that because I'm pretty old school, but tons of people (apart from here) already told me to switch, and I know is probably a matter of weeks (maybe less because I used mine for 8 years with zbrush), so I'll give my Intuos 4 mid a shot as mouse. 

@Thomas Helzle thanks for the tip on the Windows Ink driver, will definetly come in handy

Cheers!

Edited by caskal

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I use a wacom in combination with a evoulent verti mouse. The key is to regularly switch between the two. Also look up videos on how too setup your workstation to limit loading through your fore arms. Stretching at a regular intervals is critical. 

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I had similar problems., but I've found the ultimative Solution (my doc told me). 

Try a tennis ball and massage your forearm muscles. Sound super stupid but its awesome! there are also special massage balls for this purpose. Its worth a try!

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Thanks everybody for the help! here are some stuff I did to tackle this so far:


1) Started kinesiologist
2) Trying to get used to the wacom right now, pain has reduced and I'm getting used, still some stuff I can't pick but is a matter of practice I guess 
3) Bought a anti-stress ball i'm picking from time to time
4) Putting ice on my wrist at night for 20 min 
5) Also bought a vertical mouse (Anker) to test
6) When I'm tired of the wacom (until I get used), I switch to the mouse but placing all the arm over the desktop

Hope this evolves in a correct way, can't make a living without the computer, thanks again

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I have dealt with some of the same issues as you @caskal and my solution was as everyone else suggested.

I have a Wacom tablet and an evoluent vertical mouse. I use my left hand with the Wacom pen and right hand with the mouse. This way I can easily switch between them and not overuse my wrist.

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In additional to all the other good advice here I'll throw in my two cents. I use (since 20 years), and think you'll find useful, a stretching and strength training regimen. Yoga once a day, doing machines at the gym once a week.

IMHO this pain is basically atrophy. Aging before, way before our time.

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Posted (edited)

I have both a left and right Evoluent Vertical mouse. Just switching between left/right helps of course, regardless of the mouse, but I like how these feel; the left mouse is nice too, in that I don't have to change any system settings for LMB/MMB/RMB to use the same fingers on my left hand, as they do on the right. I hid the right mouse for a few days, to force my self to get used to the left; now I can alternate as needed.

The Logitech M570 is also a favorite, especially if I have to work on a laptop. I can't use a regular trackball, but the thumb trackball is awesome. No idea how it compares to their new version, but it's pretty affordable, cheaper than the newer MX one.

I'm also a big fan of the Goldtouch keyboard, as I can adjust angles until they feel just right, and I like the keyboard pressure.

Good luck!

 

Edited by goldleaf
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do you last 'long' in Call of Duty using the Evoluent mouse ?

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Thanks guys, been using wacom so far and is great, only thing I hate is I can't scroll on the Houdini number fields like I did with middle wheel button, any advice on this? trying to get used to the interface with wacom mostly, so any tips regarding to that is more than welcome. I'm also using "F" to frame the node wich I didn't before, and spacebar to move, pencil click to zoom (defaults), using more shortcuts is also great tho.

@kleer001 I used to do yoga but stoped (dumb decition) but I try to strech every 2 hours and do some quick asanas, as for gym I go 6 days a week (my ground wire after 12 hours marathon on the pc), I started doing some tendons training on the gym too wich I didn't before, thanks for the advice on that.

So any wacom users, tips on shortcuts or configs are more than welcome, got some advice on facebook using "tab + click" but isn't doing anything, also switching from wacom mouse mode, not sure if my drivers are fucked or old but I don't see that option, got an intuos 4 mid

Thanks!

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@caskal with regards to scrolling the ladders, you could switch your settings so that the lowest button on your pen is a middle click, and your upper button is a right click. This way you have access to all 3 clicks (gently tab your pen on the table is a left click).

this allows you to navigate houdinis interface just with the pen.

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18 hours ago, Jesper Rahlff said:

@caskal with regards to scrolling the ladders, you could switch your settings so that the lowest button on your pen is a middle click, and your upper button is a right click. This way you have access to all 3 clicks (gently tab your pen on the table is a left click).

this allows you to navigate houdinis interface just with the pen.

Master! thank you!

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