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Kokosing

Is This Suicide?

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I've been using Cinema 4D for about 5 years now. I've often looked wistfully at Houdini and wondered if I should ever dive in.

Well now I'm starting a long project and I'm not sure Cinema 4D can do what I want so I'm considering whether to invest a few days trying it out in Houdini.

Here's what I'm trying to do:

I've got a table full of papers (polygonal planes - could be proceedural, doesn't matter.) I want them to fly up off the table and group together to form different target shapes. This is no problem in Cinema 4D's proceedural Mograph module, but I want to take this a few steps further. I'd like the papes to bend with the target shapes. So for instance if the target shape was a cylinder, the papers forming the outside ring would curve to match it, but not stretch. I'd also like to prevent the papers from colliding, but this may be alot to ask (and definitely requires particles, yes?)

Could anyone give me their honest opinion of whether this is the sort of thing a new user could take on? Can this indeed be done in Houdini? I'd probably build all my geometry and do all my rendering and comping in apps I know well so it's really just the animation I'm trying to create.

Thanks in advance for any advice, and if I don't join you all on this one, hopefully I will on the next.

Will

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mmmm if you dont know how to use houdini, let your fingers away from houdini, at your project. learn it when you got time. i love houdini, i was a cinema user for years, switcht to maya, and now i work with houdini. Houdini is the top of VFX effects. But dont switch to it, when you got no knowledge. Because houdini is not equal to cinema or maya. Houdini is better, but you have to know a lot, i needed one year to understand the main things.

bye

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Well Mainframe123 is right that Houdini can be tough to learn but from what I've seen of Houdini 9 SESI have gone to great lengths to make getting up to speed a lot easier. You should at least download Houdini 9 Apprentice and have a play around and try a few demos. Anyway, your project sounds a little like this one from a year back:

Image destruction snd reconstruction

As a learning exercise you could try working your way through the hip files posted in that thread to see if you can make sense of it all. Work your way node-by-node and read the help for each one you are not familiar with. The hip files in the above thread show how to break an image into pieces that are attached to particles that perform some acrobatics before reforming themselves into a different shape. it definitely covers some of the issues you were talking about.

john.

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i am very noob in houdini too,but it is kind of a application that let you inside as long as you dig in.in your situation,i've just made a little brain storming as best as for a noob. what i come up with is(as a noob),as long as you have the same vertex numbers with your main geometry,thre should be no problem to find out the point positions of both main geo and paper geo. in the beginning of the sim maybe the papers can be instanced to a particles to fly away,and with proper grouping deleting and finding out the positions of each points,there should be no problem to tell paper points to go exact point coordinates of main geo. even if you change the main geo during the sim,the papers will keep mathing themselves. this is probably the humble way of achiving this,but maybe it helps.

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I would just jump in and learn to swim

it can be exhausting and scary but it pays off

you will learn a lot if you solve this instead of studying slowly and tasking yourself

beside work

z

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Hi grasshopper,

Reminding that cool example is great... thanks...

:)

//

I would suggest not to rush... Learning houdini is a little bit different than learning other software...

jumping right into Maya... may help you learn it... but jumping into Houdini might scare you and make you miss some of the important aspects...

They thought us Houdini at school... it took me 8 months to understand the main aspects... maybe I am too slow...

But I have to tell that It would have been much harder to learn it on my own... We have a great Houdini tutor here... And I remember that he approached the issue very gently... and helped us to understand the philosophy behind the hierarchy and the interface... which is not a technical but more emotional aspect... more about how you should think and approach the problem under Houdini... And if you rush and push it very hard... you might miss that non-technical aspect...

I do not know... maybe it is me getting emotional... but this is how I feel about my Houdini learning experience...

It is the same thing about Linux... all the file and folder structure... the way Linux is designed... it is very compatible with the structure of Houdini... that's why i feel like Houdini is suffering when I see a Houdini on XP...

:)

Anyway... it probably me getting a little bit mental :P

Edited by Symbolic

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Oh, crap...

Such "mentor tone" gets only down and doesn't help at all!!! All of you who starts his post with "you better stay away from Houdini, it's hard to learn it" or gets into memories "oh, when I was young and only began to learn it"... CUT THAT CRAP!

Kokosing asked about certain problem and not about how hard to learn Houdini - we all know IT IS HARD! And it's twice as hard when you see such things as an answer for your direct question!

You know, mentor-tone-lovers - KEEP SHUT WHEN YOU'VE NOTHING HELPFUL TO SAY! That would be smarter, then posting for posting...

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take it easy dude... your way aint eighter the right way....

I guess OdForce is the best comunity I ever met, everyone always ready to -help- and give advices here... so you might have misunderstood or misread the above answers...

cheers.

/moderator (which I'm not)

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I've read them quite well - 2 of them were about the subject and one of those replies was from a noob (as the author said) - but for what sacred purpose Mainframe123 and zoki posted their stuff? Any helpful word? That's ok - everyone has his HO, but there are right places for them. But Mainframe123's post and the like are only for showing - how tough I am and how noob you are? Why? What for? Can't figure it out... Wanna talk? Create a topic, call it "flood" - and flood away. But if, as you said, it is for -help- - it is for help, but not for some crap.

Thanks.

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actually Krakatuk

the issue and focus of mainframes reply wasnt a condescending remark from a position of "elite houdini user", the topic wasnt asking the forum users for a methodology in houdini to achieve that effect, but rather asking whether this is a large task in the tool and whether, as a noob this would be achievable.

his reply was rather a passive caution that one should take when learning a package (that does take time to learn), and has a very shallow pool of tutorials and learning resources,

and most importantly, Needs a custom pipeline when taking elements in and out of other packages.

Some people jump at a tool in the heat of a production expected certain results, and often that just leads to more frustration than is necessary.

I and I know many others would give that advice to anyone who wishes use the tool, to do so in their own time, than have someone invest a large portion of time into achieving an effect only to hit one huge stumbling block at 4am in the morning, and have nothing else but a forum and a small pool of tutorials to save my ass from getting the job done.

:blink:

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I kinda agree with you about Mainframe123 answer ... but still ..

btw.. now we are the one who're flooding :) .. let's hope for some other needfull advices..

My word can be something like the following:

Before moving to London I spent almost 2 years trying to setup a VFX team based on Houdini ... without having "on the field" proper experience with Houdini ..

its been really tough ... and I learnt a Lot.... but not as much as I'm learning here at CFC with guys that.. hey .. are serious Masters ...

Still.. I can say that being forced to learn it by yourself its really helpfull.. but at the same time.. DONT underhestimate deadlines... if you feel more confortable with 4D and you HAVE a deadline.. maybe its better you learn Houdini in your spare time.. trying to crete same effects maybe ... but dont rely on it for Production...

hope this makes sense.

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I kinda agree with you about Mainframe123 answer ... but still ..

btw.. now we are the one who're flooding :) .. let's hope for some other needfull advices..

My word can be something like the following:

Before moving to London I spent almost 2 years trying to setup a VFX team based on Houdini ... without having "on the field" proper experience with Houdini ..

its been really tough ... and I learnt a Lot.... but not as much as I'm learning here at CFC with guys that.. hey .. are serious Masters ...

Still.. I can say that being forced to learn it by yourself its really helpfull.. but at the same time.. DONT underhestimate deadlines... if you feel more confortable with 4D and you HAVE a deadline.. maybe its better you learn Houdini in your spare time.. trying to crete same effects maybe ... but dont rely on it for Production...

hope this makes sense.

I'm absolutely agree with that we're now the flooders - and that's what I'm, being a newbie, trying to say - there are now 12 minus 2 posts that are useless for the main topic! We, the noobs, are not that deadly dumb to understand that you shouldn't take the sword which you can't hold still for it's too heavy for you now - but how the heck can I get stronger to hold it, if here and there each and everyone says to me "Don't touch it, you don't need it!" There's not that enough of tuts of the same amount of info to work on your own like for Maya or max, and having the only additional way to find out something you need by asking someone who may know - you receive "stay outta this" or some abstract thoughts about how hard life is - this IS NOT HELP. I guess, that's ok for posts starting "I'd like to learn Houdini, where should I start from? - that's the place for mentoring about your hard way in learning it, that's the place you can tell - I read this, this and this, give it a try also... But when a person asks a direct question - I've stuck up with this and any idea is appreciated - the only help is a direct answer or any hint for the way to go.

That's all the same at times on the other forums, but shouldn't such solid software has a solid community that could prevent such useless floods and be more constructive when it is to be constructive?

Edited by Krakatuk

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Could anyone give me their honest opinion of whether this is the sort of thing a new user could take on? Can this indeed be done in Houdini? I'd probably build all my geometry and do all my rendering and comping in apps I know well so it's really just the animation I'm trying to create.

Hey!? I really do not know what is going on here... but I do not think that your approach is a positive one "Krakatuk"...

Nobody is trying to scare anybody... nobody is pretending to be a houdini master / king whatever... here. As stated above, there has been a question posted... and I think all of the answers are cool... people do not have to be technical all the time... in fact the question is not asking exactly for the entire solution, it is asking for an advice. Nobody here on this forum is bound to present full solutions... some times they are advices sometimes they are bits and pieces that you have to put together... but even then... I can say that all the posts here on this forum have been helpful to me so far...

And you should not forget that this is a community... people here are not robots... they do not just go: "Connect that to that! feed this in this! Render! Bye!"

There is always some chatting... I am really sorry to read such an angry post here... Learning is hard. You can get angry. But you should have some respect. This is what I think...

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Kokosing,

Just wanted to add that if you are familiar with programming, or scripting, Houdini will be easier for you. There are many similiarities. Thats not to say that you have to be a programmer to get going, I'm sure many houdini users are not programmers.

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I think the best advice here is from a man named Henry Ford

"Whether you think you can or you think you can't, you're probably right"

Noob or Master the quote holds true, so before you start asking a forum to hold your hand through your own project, maybe rather than posting some questions about whether or not you should put in a few days you should just put in your few days and ask a real question. The direct question was this

Can this indeed be done in Houdini?

Yes

whether this is the sort of thing a new user could take on?

Yes

The only thing people were trying to warn you, prolly cuz they have been through it before, is it only takes a few days to make something, but depending on your abillity to learn something new(aka IQ), your desire to succeed, and your commitment to the project, it may take a long long time to make it look good, or double that to make it look great. And judging form the amount of insecurity in your posts, Karakatuk, I would say you fall under the "think you can't" category. It is not an insult if it is a fact, but only you know the real answer.

-3db

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