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mattak posted a topic in Lighting & RenderingHi everybody, thought I'd throw up a simple file to demo the problem, In the context of rendering a flip sim mesh in mantra, with the env geometry as both holdout 'forced matte' and 'forced phantom' to have it still show up in reflections and refractions, I have a situation where by adding the object as forced phantom, it cancels out force matte. But as a work-around - it seems if I duplicate that same env geometry, by copy&pasting the sop, and setting that new sop to be the phantom and not the original, mantra renders as expected. Go figure... Cheers, Matt 01 Render with everything visible 02 forced phantom cancelling forced matte 03 both forced matte and forced phantom working after sop object duplication phantomHoldoutTest_v001.hip