Male Human Bones

[MatrixNAN]

Hey Everyone,

I am working on sculpting up Male Human Bones right now as just a personal project, and I was wondering if everyone could direct me on which detailing is most realistic when dealing with human bones. I don't have a real skeleton in front of me and I am relying off of books, mainly "Atlas of Human Anatomy for the Artist" and "Primal Pictures CD Set of the Human Body". I was wanting to nail down the right detailing so that I did not over due it or under do the detailing on all of the bones. This is the Scapula for the shoulder.

Most Smoothed Out Detail:

Medium Smoothed Out Detail:

Least Smoothed Out Detail:

Houdini, XSI, ZBrush. This is just sculpting no texturing thus far.

Cheers,

Nate Nesler

[Mcronin]

Not bad, but I think even the first one might be a little too rough. Bones tend to be pretty smooth with very fine pits and bumps. If you want a good idea of what a human bone's surface should look like, maybe see if you can get a look at a skeleton at a doctor's office, medical supply store, or local university. Many of those skeletons are real human bones.

[exel]

Not bad, but I think even the first one might be a little too rough. Bones tend to be pretty smooth with very fine pits and bumps. If you want a good idea of what a human bone's surface should look like, maybe see if you can get a look at a skeleton at a doctor's office, medical supply store, or local university. Many of those skeletons are real human bones.

25384[/snapback]

MCronin's right, and you can trust him, he's been burying people and digging up bones for years. More of a hobby than a job really.

Anyway, nice work on the model, that was all done by hand, eh? It's definitely got a telltale Z-brush look, with all the little wobbly bumps, but the proportions look excellent, nice work! I tend to agree with MCronin though, a smoother surface may look plastic at first, but a good bone shader with some good rendering would really complete the look... why not do the very fine pits+bumps with a procedural shader? Nice work man!

-JS-

[MatrixNAN]

Hey Guys,

Everyone seems to be saying smooth it out some more. Which is cool I could not really tell what the surface was like because its hard to tell in my book. Although I think the dog made off with some rather large cow bones so I might just study those. lol Not exactly a human Scapula but maybe it will be close enough on texture. lol Yeah I think I went over board with trying to get the uneven surfaces on the edges.

Thank you guys sooo much for your response because I did not want to go through modeling all of the bones only to realise I over did it one way or another and have to go back and redo them several times. Yikes. I will also be dropping by UGA on Friday so hopefully I will get a shot at seeing some real human skeletons in the medical department after I talk with the art department.

Thanks Again,

Nate Nesler

[deecue]

hey nate.. nice stuff.. i definately agres with the others.. bones to me seem pretty smooth except when examined real close which is where you'll begin to see the fine detail.. i'm assuming you're also doing image searches on the internet? could be a big resource out there to tap somewhere.. quickly found this image of a scapula and you can kinda see how there is texture, but it''s somewhat at a fine level.. i agree with jason, a good surface shader on that would do it well with a subtle disp shader to finally sell it..

http://biology.clc.uc.edu/fankhauser/Labs/...PB012148crp.JPG

cool stuff tho.. keep us updated

[MatrixNAN]

Hey Guys N Gals,

Thanks to your guys comments I have made some real progress. I can't thank you enough. These should be much more realistic. Your comments made major improvements in my model. I also found some images off of google search engine that really helped also. Again I still have not done any texturing on the model its sculpting at this point and time. I actually hand modeled in every major pore in the bone structure. I didn't feel the brush could really give me what I wanted there so I just did it by hand. I did end up using the pinch tool to get tighter define edges that run along a good number of scapulas. As I cam to find out no 2 Scapulas are a like. So some of them have these ridges and some of them don't. Most it seems do but their placement varies.

The Scapula model as it stands is a little more than 3 million polys. I plan on UV Unwraping the model here in the future and taking some pictures of the cow bones to use as textures for projection master. Thanks again guys Comments and Crits are welcomed. I am thinking of etching in more detail along the edges where the bone definition does this slight cascading effect etched inwards. Not sure though I might just do that with Projection Master and some good textures. Tell me what you think and what it needs work on. The texture on the bone is not perfect but that is as good as I can do before displace texturing to add more definition to the model. Looking forward to ZBrush 2.5 so I can push my models further. My other computer can barely handle the 3 million polys. Ugh.

Front of Scapula:

Back of Scapula:

Side of Scapula:

Cheers and Thanks Again,

Nate Nesler

[LEO-oo-]

Looks nice! Check this site for some refrences: http://www.kasterstener.com

[MatrixNAN]

Hey Guys,

Thank you leo and thank you deecue for the references always really help out a lot. Those should come in handy.

Cheers Guys,

Nate Nesler

[deecue]

wow nate.. night and day difference.. much much better.. that's def some crazy modeling work considering it's all by hand.. and pretty quick turnaround too.. you must have some insane modeling zone you can get in to..

[MatrixNAN]

Hey Guys N Gals,

Here is the Humerus. I was hoping to have it finished but I have sculpted it up 5 times due to some freak problem with ZBrush crashing tonight. ZBrush does not normally crash and its not due to the poly count. Its crashing around the 1,000 to 64,000 poly range but I can pump ZBrush up to 7.7 million and it does not even begin to complain so very odd. ZBrushed crashed on me about 20 times tonight and I can't remember the last time it crashed before that I mean its been a long time since it has crashed so it was a bit frustrating. I had a gig of ram free too. Very odd.

Anyhow I only have the base shape defined of the lower part of the Humerus that attaches to the Radius and the Ulna. The grove in the Cartilage needs to be done again. I am still trying to nail down my workflow in ZBrush. I will work on the rotator cuff of the Humerus tomarrow. Sorry I didn't have the whole Humerus done tonight.

Front of Humerus Bottom Where the Radius and Ulna Connect:

Back of Humerus Bottom Where the Radius and Ulna Connect:

Poly Count is 7.7 million.

Yeah its a lot better Deecue but it will look even better once I get a digital camera and make the textures for it. I have some Cow Bones to take pictures of so that will make a real difference. This one has a ways to go on the Humerus. Grrrrrrr. lol If it was just me being stupid I would not be so frustrated but I literally did about the same thing 5 times due to all of the crashing. I was really wanting that model finished and done. I am getting faster at Sculpting and getting around the program.

Cheers,

Nate Nesler

[MatrixNAN]

Hey Guys N Gals,

Ok I finished the Humerus and ZBrush seems to only want to crash on that bone alone. Very very strange. I am very glad I finished it because I am tired of it crashing. I have started the Clavical which does not crash, and I think I am going to lighten up the surface of the Scapula for the fine detail pores like what I did with the Humerus and also I found a Layer brush that I didn't know how it worked and I think I might try modeling in that Layered effect on the Scapula bone.

Would be cool if that works because then I might not have to even bother with displacements if I can do everything through modeling and then I could just use the Texturing for color. Not sure yet how I am going to go about it.

Humerus Pictures:

Cheers,

Nate Nesler

[MatrixNAN]

Hey Guys N Gals,

Ok I need your help again. Your comments have made me sooooo much better artisticly with ZBrush just over the last several days its just been crazy. I need help on knowing what to push on the Scapula to make it look more real. I have done an update on the surface and it looks better now than what I posted ealier but it still does not look real enough to me. I know the cascading surface topology would really help, but I can't seem to figure out how to use the layer tool effectively. So any suggestions would be wonderful. Sorry guys I am still learning ZBrush and how to really detail a surface and how to really push my models and the how to effective use the ZBrush tools to increase my workflow.

Well unforinately ZBrush 2.0 seems to keep crashing on that Humerus only. Its not doing it on the Clavical or the Scapula. All of my bone models are completely Quads. So its just really strange. I really did a lot better tonight with the Humerus the shaft of that bone looks 10 times better than last night. This is the best bone I have done yet without a doubt and now I am trying to figure out how to make the Scapula look as good. I also further detailed the 2 ends of the Humerus. I also am about mid way through modeling the Clavical. We will have to see if I get around to finishing it tonight. Might not happen. Instead of doing more bones I just decided to do the bones I have already done better and more accurate. I really am just trying to get down a good workflow.

Humerus Touch Up Updates:

Scapula Touch Up Updates:

I am going to bring all these bones back into Houdini after I am done with them in ZBrush.

Cheers,

Nate Nesler

[MatrixNAN]

Hey Guys N Gals,

Thanks for all of the comments. Sorry I don't have the Clavicle done I had to model its shape several times because basically the term "Medically Accurate" is well not so accurate. I have 16 Anatomy Drawing Books and the Primal Pictures CD set. The Primal Pictures CD set is pretty good on the accuracy sometimes its missing a few details or they are under played but otherwise its pretty good. The books kind of skimp on this bone it seems its not a very popular bone if you can imagine a bone being popular or not. lol Right now I am working from a rather small window to see the details from the Primal Picture CDs, I have an older copy so that probably makes a pretty big difference on the size of the window, and a small medically accurate drawing. I have found a bunch of pictures that are suppose to be the clavicle but are not an actual real bone and are missing a lot of the details. Frustrating this bone is.

Top of the Clavicle:

Bottom of the Clavicle:

Cheers,

Nate Nesler

[Mcronin]

No comments except to say this stuff is looking really great now.

[MatrixNAN]

Hey All,

Well I know this is a bit of a detour but I need to do this model to show the students good form and how to go about modeling a character in high detail. Of course our computers at work are not good enough to do high detail modeling and I am doing this at home as a personal project to show to the students. This is why I need to be ripped apart on the model. I have not gotten to the hands, feet and arms in these pictures. Also I have touched up the back a bit since these pictures were screen captured. I am going to touch up the back a bit more yet. I am not totally happy with the legs. I feel pretty good about his stomach and chest although I think I need to make the sternum more visible before the muscles attach to it. Crits Crits Crits Please. Hopefully by this coming weekend the actual model will be done and I can start sculpting up the female model. I can't start on the bones again until I get all of this school stuff out of the way.

Thanks Mcronin

Model is 3.67 Million Polys and still not enough. lol

Cheers,

Nate Nesler

[MatrixNAN]

Hey Guys N Gals,

I touched up that cheek bone I also Touched up the muscle running from the mandible to just under the zygote bone. I also touched up the muscle that runs along the neck. I know the name of the muscle I just remember how to spell it. lol I also did some rough work on the arms they are far from done. Also I decided to go back and emphise the muscles on the legs some more. I think I am going to play up the muscles on the back of the legs some more. I am also going to bring out the muscles on the lower half of the legs. I have not had time to bring those out more yet. The back has been shaped better adding mass mainly to the lower back where it was lacking most.

I also played up the should blades where the scapula is and the trapizius muscle on the back. I probably spelled that wrong sorry guys I will get the spelling of these names of the all the muslces down better in time. I know the bones pretty good. I still have not even touched the hands and feet yet so yeah I will eventually get to them this weekend. If I am lucky I will get all of the masses properly defined over this weekend so I can go to work on the veins later on. Comments and Crits Welcomed. Special thanks to Chris Volion for his input on my mistakes in the definition of the form. I love being told when I am wrong so I can get better and fix it. Learning a lot from you Chris thanks so much man.

Here are the Updated Images So far I have spent about 4 days solid on this character man:

Cheers,

Nate Nesler

[LEO-oo-]

Nice job Nate - lot of details!

[deecue]

hey nate,

just wanted to say that i think these are looking great.. sorry not much a crit, but they're really nice.. if i wanted to be really picky, (and i'm no doctor so could be totally off on this), his overall head looks a bit small for the size of his chest/shoulders.. maybe it's cause he's bald.. i dunno.. just seemed a bit tiny.. also, fingers and toes seem too skinny for the way this guy is built..

but like i said.. really nice stuff.. those are just little things i noticed and they could be right on for all i know..

-dq

[MatrixNAN]

Hey Deecue,

Yeah its just because he is bald the head is the right size its slightly larger than the neck. The only way to make the head bigger would be to make the neck bigger too, but the head is the right size in the number of heads across the shoulders. If he had hair his head would look a lot bigger. Someone pointed out that the ear is too small though and they are spot on I totally forgot to go back and get it and boy am I glad they brought it up because I kept meaning to get around to it but I had totally forgotten. Keep the crits coming because the next one will more likely than not be a mistake that I have made. Thanks for the comments and crits guys. The crits always make me better but yeah I went back and double checked the head size against the chest to make sure it was the right size.

I think the pit between his lower arm and upper arm is a bit off and I need to really work on it but like I said the arm is pretty rough right now it needs a lot of work. Thanks guys for everything.

Cheers,

Nate Nesler

[stu]

Great stuff!

Can you go into detail regarding your modelling techniques, etc.? It would be interesting (to me, anyway ) to see where you started and what some of the steps were along the way.

Again, excellent work!