SOFTIMAGE|XSI 4.0 announced

[MG]

SOFTIMAGE|XSI v.4.0 Defines New Standards

for 3-D Content Creation

New version delivers customizable architecture and advanced production tools;

entry-level version delivers unprecedented capabilities at breakthrough price

NAB 2004, Las Vegas (Booth #SL4761)

[digitallysane]

Sorry to say, but it seems very "trendwhorish" to me; as in most attention seems to be going to the UI and looks.

At moments like these it makes me love SESI and Houdini more!

This is what I mean:

http://www.softimage.com/products/xsi/v4/

I do not agree .

There seem to be a lot of very nice features targeted at game developers (a market from which Houdini seems to be missing completely, and the gap from other packages seems to get wider). Also, the XML based interface sounds interesting.

Attention to the UI always seemed a good thing to me.

The most interesting thing is their new price structure: the most expensive XSI is now 9000 USD, almost half of the price of Houdini Master. I also love Houdini much more, but anyway I look at it, I think it does not deserve its money, considering today's market of 3D software.

Dragos

[edward]

I've heard that XSI for quite a while there couldn't maintain proper uv's with subd's. Looks like this release addresses that? I wonder how any production could have lived without that.

[nik]

the one thing i like about xsi is mental ray...very nice with GI and raytracing, very fast.

the other thing which i guess has been mentioned many times is the pricing issue with houdini. it is hard while all the other software tools go down in price while houdini tries to stick it out at the same price for years now.....i know this is not helping smaller users, don't know about bigger shops though. i guess they got the money and experienced users to make it worthwhile.

i much prefer houdini over xsi but when somebody who doesn't really know houdini and doesn't have the time to sit down and really get use to the workflow then the price is an important initial issue.

[Jason]

I wonder how many times someone can write the word "revolutionary" in the blurb. Now I'm sure it's really cool, but don't you hate how the marketing glossies drown the cool technology in superfluous terminology that just makes everything sound like vapourware, as if it was a proposal to a Venture Capitalist firm?

Anyhow- did anyone here use XSI in the near past?

[digitallysane]

I played a little with XSI EXP. I like very much its workflow when it comes to shading / rendering, especially because of speed. Mental Ray is incredible. It seems faster with GI than Mantra without (does anyone use GI with Mantra in real production?). Apart from that, I like Houdini much more (but it's too expensive ).

Dragos

[Mcronin]

About the expense... I think Houdini is worth the price of admission, and it seems like there are enough houses that feel the same way. There's no other software that works like Houdini or is as capable as Houdini and no other company supports their users like SideFX. None of the other companies, Discreet, Alias Newtek, or Avid have the same level of communication with their end users, not even close, and it's because SideFX isn't concerened with dominating the market; just carving out a nice share and keeping their customers happy. You can't post on a forum for another piece of software about a problem you have and get a response directly from the guy that wrote the tool. You can't call other companies on the phone and get past the help desk which in some cases you have to pay for by the minute. The guys at SideFX are actually quite nice fellows, who seem absolutely psyched about their product. After meeting a good chunk of them last year, having guys I had never met or spoke to before coming up to me, knowing who I was and being very gracious, I'm convinced beyond all doubt that if any company is worth supporting, Side FX is the one, because they will support you in return. They are the Ferrari of 3D apps, not only in price and technology, but because they treat all their customers like they are their only customer. Thankfully I use Houdini at work daily now, but if I ever go somewhere that doesn't use it, I'm going to do whatever I can to convince my boss to at least get me a seat of Escape, because I really don't want to use any other software or go back to dealing with Alias or Discreet.

Anyway, I get the impression the pricing isn't set in stone. If you were working for a smaller shop and wanted to use Houdini, you could call them up and they may be eager to work something out with you like a lease. They also don't seem to be rigid on licensing. Where with XSI or Maya, you know you are going to pay X dollars for each additonal render node, SideFX apparently gives you five out of the box for each Houdini license.

Well, sorry I went off on that little tirade. I'm not trying to start an app war here, not that it could possibly happen on this forum. I'm impressed with the stuff Alias and especially Avid have been doing, I just wanted to point out that with Side FX you get what you pay for. Look at how they treat Apprentice users, you'd think these guys were shareholders or something.

[nik]

yep, i agree with everything you say. there is no question with regards to what houdini/sesi can offer compared to most of the others.

my main point with the price is it is hard for people not familiar with the software to jump in at that level.

sure houses with experienced users don't have that problem as they know how to reap the rewards and the cost is not an issue.

even with apprentice out there, the impression i have is that it is new users using it and not the pros who are familiar with other packages. don't forget somebody using xsi all day at work probably doesn't feel like running home and pulling out apprentice.

i've had a good look at xsi and other than mental ray and hair, it doesn't really say much to me. (though i would be keen to have a look at the state the compositor is at the moment with the added paint tools)

houdini isn't perfect though so it is always good to look around and see what else is going on and what needs improving. looking at xsi and checking out mental ray was one of the reasons i was hoping for advancements in mantra in the latest release.....

[Jason]

I played a little with XSI EXP. I like very much its workflow when it comes to shading / rendering, especially because of speed. Mental Ray is incredible. It seems faster with GI than Mantra without (does anyone use GI with Mantra in real production?). Apart from that, I like Houdini much more (but it's too expensive ).

Dragos

Yeah, we've used the mantra's GI in production for a couple of scenes. It worked very well for what we were using it for - and it was very fast. Mantra's GI tools are still kinda young too - they could use some refinement. If it didn't work well for us, we would've just found another way to do it.

We're also very familiar with Mental Ray over here, although we're not using for any productions at the moment. Unfortunately a while back, during Time Machine, mental ray's GI tools were still very erractic and we had huge frame times (12hrs) and really bad aliasing. I'm certain its a lot better now, especially with all the focus on XSI and Maya->Mental Ray.

[digitallysane]

There's no other software that works like Houdini or is as capable as Houdini and no other company supports their users like SideFX. None of the other companies, Discreet, Alias Newtek, or Avid have the same level of communication with their end users, not even close, and it's because SideFX isn't concerened with dominating the market;

I totally agree here. While I had no contact with SideFX, I was a user and a beta-tester of TouchDesigner a while ago and the guys from Derivative (a company spun-off from SideFX) were absolutely incredible. Really, I have no words.

Yet I still feel that if Houdini would be around 10-12K, its user base would increase considerably.

The thing which I actually find very difficult to understand is the fact that there are so few configurations available: Select and Master (and the ghostly Escape).

Houdini is so flexible and modular, and adaptable, why so few options?

I want to be able to buy a Select license and then additionally license modules, (CHOPs, COPs, POP) as my needs grow. Nobody needs the same functions. It's strange that you can only have Halo integrated in Master, together with POP and CHOPs (which you might not need).

For example, if I decide to buy Houdini (sometimes in the future), in the beginning I would only need (and afford) Select, but then I would want to have CHOPs as soon as possible ('cause I cannot live without them). Then COPs. Then the Character tools and so on. Build a Master step by step, as money become available.

Dragos

[digitallysane]

Yeah, we've used the mantra's GI in production for a couple of scenes. It worked very well for what we were using it for - and it was very fast.

Seems I'm missing something then....

Dragos

[Jason]

If you're frugal which when you use GI, you can make it more efficient. The point is not just to lay down 50 semi-reflective detailed objects with Full Irradiance turned on with a couple of area-lights and hit go. That'll work, but at a cost:)

The thing is to consider where ambient occlusion is enough, versus a lightdome, and then be gentle in application. Having raybounces set to 1 can help, no displacement shaders. Or bounce rays against lower-resolution geometry; but tight with reflection scopes. Keep an eye out for ray-bias issues causing unnecessary bounces. Use shadow-maps where possible.

And on top of that, get familiar with the speed (and quirks) of irradiance caching. I think this area needs the most work in mantra, but it can be useful to see where your samples are landing.

Perhaps SESI will be working on mantra some more soon, and we'll get faster and faster?

I really have a soft spot for mantra, especially because of the incredible team behind it. Any reproducible serious bug I've ever had with mantra resulted in a timeous fix from SESI, and you cannot beat that.

Take care,

Jason

[digitallysane]

I found a comprehensive review of XSI 4 here:

http://www.edharriss.com/xsi/version4.htm

Dragos