malexander Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 The graphics market I think is ripe or change, if Apple weren't so stubborn with their pro support they will certainly get a lot of professional users… anyway… let's see. Perhaps they're looking more closely at the pro market now that they've refreshed the Mac Pro and put two "professional" AMD FirePros in it. They've got the hardware, now Apple needs to work on the software. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tar Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 It can happen when Carl Ichan campaigns for OpenGL/CL upgrades instead of share buybacks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jordibares Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 Perhaps they're looking more closely at the pro market now that they've refreshed the Mac Pro and put two "professional" AMD FirePros in it. They've got the hardware, now Apple needs to work on the software. I believe they are supporting OpenGL 4.1 now, hopefully as Apple is taking care of the drivers this may end up better ??? i know.. i know… I am an optimistic. :-P I keep thinking Mari runs very well on a Mac Pro… that is all ;-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tar Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 Yep - 4.1 is up to date as of July 2010. Slow and steady wins the race http://www.opengl.org/registry/doc/glspec41.core.20100725.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magneto Posted April 21, 2014 Author Share Posted April 21, 2014 I am looking forward to OpenGL 4.4 in Houdini. Is it necessary? I don't know Mark knows better whether to upgrade or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tar Posted April 22, 2014 Share Posted April 22, 2014 Looks like GL3.3 upwards is supported: http://www.sidefx.com/index.php?option=com_forum&Itemid=172&page=viewtopic&p=140818&highlight=#140818 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jordibares Posted April 22, 2014 Share Posted April 22, 2014 That should do.. :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sebkaine Posted May 5, 2014 Share Posted May 5, 2014 I would be curious to know the roots of your enthousiam for Apple. I swear i am not an apple hater, i have and ipod and ipad ... But as a workstation tool : - Mac OS X offer less performance than a good debian based distro in terms of GL Perf with Houdini and Maya. - Apple Hardware from CPU to RAM to GPU to HDD is exactly the same hardware but with price *2 , sometimes *3. - Apple rely mostly on ATI GPU, while i am definitly not an Nvidia Fan, they use to work better with 3D apps. - you are on a plateform that has nearly no VIRUS compare to windows and OSX. So to my fachist POV you pay more for less , so what are the strength of OSX that i am missing and that make you prefer it ? - simplicity ? - clean UI ? - cool design of the machine ? - Photoshop / Zbrush / After Effects support ? - Clean unification of all the system ? Cheers E 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tar Posted May 5, 2014 Share Posted May 5, 2014 As in golf, the best work with handicaps Is the extra performance to compensate for the operator? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jordibares Posted May 5, 2014 Share Posted May 5, 2014 I would be curious to know the roots of your enthousiam for Apple. I swear i am not an apple hater, i have and ipod and ipad ... But as a workstation tool : - Mac OS X offer less performance than a good debian based distro in terms of GL Perf with Houdini and Maya. - Apple Hardware from CPU to RAM to GPU to HDD is exactly the same hardware but with price *2 , sometimes *3. - Apple rely mostly on ATI GPU, while i am definitly not an Nvidia Fan, they use to work better with 3D apps. - you are on a plateform that has nearly no VIRUS compare to windows and OSX. So to my fachist POV you pay more for less , so what are the strength of OSX that i am missing and that make you prefer it ? - simplicity ? - clean UI ? - cool design of the machine ? - Photoshop / Zbrush / After Effects support ? - Clean unification of all the system ? Cheers E I would argue performance is not the critical factor, rarely you will push the machines to the limit in a way that it will be critical and although GL is right now a very important "to-do" once that is solved I would be happy to trade that "extra performance" if any, for the whole ecosystem in OSX. Regarding Hardware price it has been the case in the past but I am afraid the price argument is no longer true, just try to build the same system (not similar, truly the same) and you will see OSX is cheapest by a good margin TODAY. of course as the PC world moves faster in a couple of years that won't be true any more of course but what will be true is that depreciation is very different PC vs. OSX. They last longer and still hold value. Just have a look on eBay and you will see. ATI to me is the major element, I am not really sure what to think given the Mari port is truly working very well but I have always seen nVidia as a better pro choice… In this particular case Apple should give the option to the user, still I would certainly give it a go. OSX, Virus, Windows… since the NSA my worry is no longer virus. ;-) The critical reason for me is that on OSX I have an ecosystem of applications that work together, it is very very simple to administer and the developing software is very easy and cheaper than Linux (given that OSX is now free -cost-, given the development environment is cheap the only thing cost wise is maintenance so I am certain OSX is the cheaper option. A good example is a platform where Mari, Photoshop, Zbrush, After Effects, UV Layout, Hiero, Professional Audio tools, Houdini, Pro level video editing work together. You won't even get Hiero working with Alexa camera quick times on Linux!!!! All in all I totally understand why people go for Linux today but without a OSX or Windows machine you just simply can't produce, therefore I rather have one single system to buy, maintain and suffer too. Is this scalable to a medium facility? I think so, but someone has to prove it to the rest of the world I guess. Therefore for me is critical Houdini supporting OGL properly, that will be the turning point in which there is no reason whatsoever to stay on Linux. Plus you can always install Linux on a Mac that is cheaper than the PC counterpart!!! hope it does not read like a fanboy but I truly think is the way forward. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sebkaine Posted May 6, 2014 Share Posted May 6, 2014 (edited) "All in all I totally understand why people go for Linux today but without a OSX or Windows machine you just simply can't produce, therefore I rather have one single system to buy, maintain and suffer too." Thats definitly a good argument, i will be pretty hard in fact to get a full LINUX env in a commercial company. - Mac OS X for all the editing / 2D art stuff - LINUX for the rest Would be a good choice also. When you say hardware is cheaper you are right only if you think from a spec to spec VS. I would more think as a How many machine for the money i have. Mac Pro compete with pro workstation from HP for ex i agree. and i definitly love the design of the new MacPro. But to get a 32GB machine the entry price is 3600$. I can build machine that will perform around 90% equal as the Mac for 1200$ and thus get 3 instead of one. Of course i have to choose my component and assemble them , but PC offer me this flexibility. Maybe i'm more thinking as an individual Geek than as a company ... in this regards. But my main complain about apple is How rigid things are , in terms of hardware/software. Sure when you enter in the room all is neat and perfect but guess what if i don't like this chair , or the color of the room or where electricity plugs are located and i want to modify to feet exactly my own needs / desire , i can't do it, with a PC i can. Mac are really clean but the thing that always bother me from a pro POV is the rigidity behind this clean facade. By the way each time a friend ask me what to buy as a laptop i always said get a macbook air ... so it's important to only base our discussion on a Pro pov , cause for home stuff Mac devices really shines. Thanks for your detail post Jordi ! Edited May 6, 2014 by sebkaine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tar Posted May 6, 2014 Share Posted May 6, 2014 But my main complain about apple is How rigid things are , in terms of hardware/software. Sure when you enter in the room all is neat and perfect but guess what if i don't like this chair , or the color of the room or where electricity plugs are located and i want to modify to feet exactly my own needs / desire , i can't do it, with a PC i can. Are individual PC's really that novel? Everyone puts the same stuff in them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sebkaine Posted May 6, 2014 Share Posted May 6, 2014 I don't think PC strength is in novelty but in versatility, the ability to pay for exactly what you need. But as PC and MAC are now quite the same things from a component pov, i wouldn't base my choice on novelty but more on: - what do i need to run my tools fluently - how many it will cost me to get that machine - how easy it will be to make this machine evolve if i need it - how easy will it be to automate as a users some process i don't want to do myself etc ... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tar Posted May 6, 2014 Share Posted May 6, 2014 It's pretty simple; for a business if you get a prebuilt machine, Apple/HP etc you invest about 30sec- 5min in buying it. How long to set up a powerful custom Linux box- 1 day total if you know what you are doing. 1+ week of R&D if you've never done it before - that's wasted time. Pre-built up and running in a few hours after installation- you are starting to produce. That 'extra' cost is gone so quickly if you earn within that time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sebkaine Posted May 6, 2014 Share Posted May 6, 2014 That is true ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jordibares Posted May 6, 2014 Share Posted May 6, 2014 I have a love hate relationship with the tight grip Apple has on its hardware but the truth is that the advantages all OSX users crave are pretty much due to the fact that they support very little options, these are very good (may be not the best but very good indeed) and the software manufacturers have a very easy time. Let's face it, fragmentation of hardware means software manufacturers have to have a big testing cycle just to make sure it is compatible with the main solutions. I had a friend working for a well known graphics card manufacturer and his job was to make sure the drivers were working perfectly with one particular application.. Can you imagine the costs??? With regards with top of the line versus not so amazingly fast… check iMacs, may look like toys but they are not and I bet many of us (me the first of them) would do perfectly well with a top iMac for less than $2000. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tar Posted May 6, 2014 Share Posted May 6, 2014 I do like the competition out there, the performance gains have been staggering over the so many years. A truism, though, is that you can see the future performance of OsX by booting up in Linux Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil78 Posted May 6, 2014 Share Posted May 6, 2014 I have to agree - comp and 3D in linux is very much the proverbial "Dog's Bollocks"; minus a crash here and there... It was Paul, Jordi, at realise who actually pointed me in the direction of Linux - don't tell me he's now maccing it...? I personally love the way certain distros are being developed; but things change... My personal approach = Boxx for solid station | Linux for vfx. An imac for conforms / Audio / editing / Adobe is not such a big investment.... but agreed a pain having to get 2 systems. . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jordibares Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 I have to agree - comp and 3D in linux is very much the proverbial "Dog's Bollocks"; minus a crash here and there... It was Paul, Jordi, at realise who actually pointed me in the direction of Linux - don't tell me he's now maccing it...? I personally love the way certain distros are being developed; but things change... My personal approach = Boxx for solid station | Linux for vfx. An imac for conforms / Audio / editing / Adobe is not such a big investment.... but agreed a pain having to get 2 systems. . Ha ha ha… things change… Hopefully soon I will be able to have a single machine in front of me that does exactly what I need and then I will be a happier bunny. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tar Posted May 17, 2014 Share Posted May 17, 2014 Some nice experimental Nvidia drivers for OsX - not sure if they can be directly useful for the next Houdini or if they are only for power management & OpenCL improvements. http://www.tonymacx86.com/graphics/132541-nvidia-releases-alternate-graphics-drivers-10-9-3-334-01-01f01.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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