Mushroom Asset (feedback)

[caskal]

Hey magicians, 

I'm trying to make a mushroom asset just to practice, wanted to share to ask for some feedback.

Couple of questions:

1) Right now is kinda slow because of the resolution, is better to work on a slower mesh and at the final add a subdivide?, or maybe work with vdbs?

2) If I want to make for example, different kind of inner noise designs and have a dropdown, how do I do that? what should I pick in the parameter interface and how I link the end result of each design noise?

3) Right now the numbers on the parameters are kinda weird, should I start using fit range nodes on vops?

Here are some samples, this is my first try at modeling and making an asset so any advice on optimizing and make it better is more than welcome, still a work in progress, want to make adaptable to all kind of mushrooms (in a future I would like to animate a growth, should I be carring of that now? or at the end of having all the stuff?

Thanks to @konstantin magnus for the hip on how to make the gills

 

Thanks!

Mushroom_Asset.hip

Edited April 12, 2017 by caskal

[SteveNi]

1)Yes absolutely add resolutions parameters.

2)It looks like you have already added the right parameters for noise in the OTL window.

3)Yes maybe add some fit range nodes, so you can modulate the noise from a simple range to read like (-1,1), but always leave these locks off (see screen shot), this way, if wanted, it will be possible to go over the range predefined.

Another thing you could add is a deformer to bend the overall mushroom:

As you can see from the image not every mushroom is completely straight.

[f1480187]

Works fine for me. I prefer to disable Round Corners on Wireframe node. It creates many primitive spheres which are slow to display when there are lots of them. Or use PolyWire instead. According to Performance Monitor, cap extrusion takes 30% of cook time. If you can replace it with Soft Peak of unshared points or even just normal Peak, it will save some cook time. You may add some level of detail control to allow users tune parameters faster, switching to high-res mode at the end.

Here is something similar: orange_porous_fungus.hdanc

Edited April 12, 2017 by f1480187

[caskal]

3 hours ago, SteveNi said:

1)Yes absolutely add resolutions parameters.

2)It looks like you have already added the right parameters for noise in the OTL window.

3)Yes maybe add some fit range nodes, so you can modulate the noise from a simple range to read like (-1,1), but always leave these locks off (see screen shot), this way, if wanted, it will be possible to go over the range predefined.

Another thing you could add is a deformer to bend the overall mushroom:

As you can see from the image not every mushroom is completely straight.

Thanks @SteveNi , will add some detail parameters, also the bend idea is great, thanks for the tips. About the noise what I meant is have a dropdown with names so I can select different types of pre-made inner structures, or different styles of caps, I think I can go with a switch but a dropdown will look sexier, thanks!

 

 

[caskal]

3 hours ago, f1480187 said:

Works fine for me. I prefer to disable Round Corners on Wireframe node. It creates many primitive spheres which are slow to display when there are lots of them. Or use PolyWire instead. According to Performance Monitor, cap extrusion takes 30% of cook time. If you can replace it with Soft Peak of unshared points or even just normal Peak, it will save some cook time. You may add some level of detail control to allow users tune parameters faster, switching to high-res mode at the end.

Here is something similar: orange_porous_fungus.hdanc

First of all that hip is awesome, just checked and had some ideas for the mushrooms, love the patterns on the cap, quite a setup!. About the wireframe always forgot wich one is fast but I've done some tests were one is faster than the other, I guess I choose the wrong one. Never used the Soft Peak but will check the help and see what I can come up with, thanks again! @f1480187 

Will post the polished setup later, first time using houdini for this kind of stuff and I can already see the time-saving tool that will be when creating a garden later on.

Cheers!

[SteveNi]

13 hours ago, caskal said:

Thanks @SteveNi , will add some detail parameters, also the bend idea is great, thanks for the tips. About the noise what I meant is have a dropdown with names so I can select different types of pre-made inner structures, or different styles of caps, I think I can go with a switch but a dropdown will look sexier, thanks!

 

 

Ehy no problem

I just saw in the video you published on your vimeo that you added the bend controls

Edited April 13, 2017 by SteveNi

[caskal]

Here is the asset with some corrections:

Changelog :

• Added global deformer
• Global details
• Particular detail
• Noise options for the veil
• Added colour (just for fun, I'll render in Octane for C4D)
• Fixed inner cap subdivision
• Fixed hair direction
• Replaced wireframe with polywire with less divs.
• Added random pscale to dots
• Changed some parameter names (I was being repetitive) and also added some subfolders.
• Used the "lock" option with parameters I think that work so I don't destroy the mushroom just in case, had some weird issues (I guess because of scales) when doing the setup, sometimes displacement went crazy.

 

 

Questions:

1) In terms of organization (this is for me, but to learn in case I did some of this for work) what is better to use, network box with colors? or subnetworks?

2) Dumb question, how do I set the ramp parameter to be vertical instead of horizontal? (solved, plugged a uv coords > t) 

3) I added "detail" to each object, but I would like to add an "total detail" for the entire object, problem is if I put the each object detail and max, and then add on top of that the global detail will go nuts, should I use some vex here with conditions?

4) Is there a way, in the parameter interface, lets say I specify a range from 0 to 0.25 locked, but I want to be shown in the interface as 0-1, tried with fit range wich helped but still not figure out how to manage this in some parts like a primitive default properties

5) For "enable / disable" options I used a switch node, I noticed there is a "Toggle" option in the parameter interface but dont know how to link to the enable/disable stuff

6) What would be the best way to simulate the Veil break? tried with a ripple and deformers with no luck

 

7) Last but not least, there are TONS different types of shrooms, I think that the setup could work for the ones I attached in this ref, but there are others that are like caps only growing on a tree that would need a new setup. As for the ones on my ref, I wanted to ask should I make a copy of the mushroom asset and work on it? (that would be the cheap way) or modify te current setup so I can pick different styles of inside cap patterns with ie: a switch? that would be a good excercise I think, let me know what you think about the references please, pretty excited with my first hda, although the 0.02931 numbers on the setup are driving me nuts 

 

 

[caskal]

Sorry forgot to attach the file 

Mushroom_Asset_v2.hip

[konstantin magnus]

Regarding question no. 7:

definitely try to make your asset as versatile as possible. In my opinion procedures lose elegance if they get too specific.

Also start from scratch. You will find many shortcuts and more robust methods by redoing things over and over again. 

Analyze what all depicted mushrooms have in common and try to generalize first. Once you know the scope, look for the broadest technical solution that covers all. 

Edited April 13, 2017 by konstantin magnus

[stickman]

Brilliant, caskal!  No time to explore just now... but feedback from the video...

1) the annulus ring is formed from the skin breaking as the cap expands.. .it would be cool if this could stretch more tot he rim of the cap
2) it would be cool to have a parameter for no. of mushrooms, then have the stem bend with a variance within each stem
 

I'm really liking this! Hope to be able to make this kind of thing myself soon!

[caskal]

22 hours ago, konstantin magnus said:

Regarding question no. 7:

definitely try to make your asset as versatile as possible. In my opinion procedures lose elegance if they get too specific.

Also start from scratch. You will find many shortcuts and more robust methods by redoing things over and over again. 

Analyze what all depicted mushrooms have in common and try to generalize first. Once you know the scope, look for the broadest technical solution that covers all. 

Thanks @konstantin magnus . I agree about the specific stuff, noticed that when I added some parameters that should be better to have them sort of globaly.

Good idea about startingut from scratch, got some new methods I want to try. Did a reference, there are so many types that I would try to generalize as you said, apart from that, is there any way for example, to have in the interface parameter a dropdown with: Cap Type (a list of 5 different types) and when you choose one of them, a parameter list appear like make it taller, smaller, noisier?

[caskal]

9 hours ago, stickman said:

Brilliant, caskal!  No time to explore just now... but feedback from the video...

1) the annulus ring is formed from the skin breaking as the cap expands.. .it would be cool if this could stretch more tot he rim of the cap
2) it would be cool to have a parameter for no. of mushrooms, then have the stem bend with a variance within each stem
 

I'm really liking this! Hope to be able to make this kind of thing myself soon!

Thanks @stickman , I agree on your feedback, will work on that, thanks again!

[stickman]

[stickman]

to your question on the veil break...
I think if the stem attachment ring would follow the stem thickness follows, that would help sell that attachment spot.
As for the cap rim attachment... I'd half-fake it...
- first have a similar attachment ring as the stem, then have a number of morphs and deformers for various states of breakage and shrivel. If you'd like I could model what I'm thinking. (in the coming week, when I have a few evenings free)

[caskal]

On 15/4/2017 at 3:33 AM, stickman said:

to your question on the veil break...
I think if the stem attachment ring would follow the stem thickness follows, that would help sell that attachment spot.
As for the cap rim attachment... I'd half-fake it...
- first have a similar attachment ring as the stem, then have a number of morphs and deformers for various states of breakage and shrivel. If you'd like I could model what I'm thinking. (in the coming week, when I have a few evenings free)

Thanks for the feedback stickman! will work on that!

[caskal]

Here is some further modeling practice, I wasn't considering much of the asset at this point since I wanted to practice how to make certain elements, I guess for an asset VDBs should be avoided, I'm right?

Btw, glad to see the forum back, I noticed I've been addicted to it these days when it didnt worked

 

[konstantin magnus]

Great look!

You can also turn a sphere into a mushroom by ramping its vertical bounding box to the point positions:

vector bbox = relbbox(0, @P);
float shape = chramp('Shape', bbox.y);
float width = chramp('Width', bbox.y);

@P.y = shape;
@P  *= set(width, 1, width);

That way an artist just needs 2 ramp parameter curves to create all sorts of mushroom shapes. It is quite versatile, I think..

In the end you can assign a displacement shader that adds all the necessary detail at render time.

Edited April 18, 2017 by konstantin magnus

[caskal]

Wow @konstantin magnus thats a awesome idea and loving the results, will test that now, how do you divide the uv between the cap and the stick? just playing with uv projection settings?

Thanks!

[konstantin magnus]

I dont divide it in favor of small transitions. Just projected a spherical UV before the wrangle which keep these gradients towards the center of the cap.  You can apply different displacement textures with a mix node along UVs inside your shader.