brucelay Posted April 1, 2007 Share Posted April 1, 2007 hi there, I have been in the computer animation industry for a while but I find my computer animation looks too technical. I think the problem that I have is I do not have a background on lighting. I seriously really want to know how I can have my lighting sense improved (artistically). Sometimes, I just do not know where to begin with. I read some CG lighting books but a lot of them just explain the 3 points light. I believe it must be something more than 3 point light. I guess I must go for something like "lighting Design". I am now reading some colour theory to begin with. e.g. colour wheel, primary colour and secondary colour....... Could anyone point me to a direction of how I can improve my lighting concept (especially for animations)? Any books or VTM would you recommend? A lot of the VTM just explain how to press buttons to do something but I really want to improve the look of my CGI. Should I start with some photography or life drawing class or do some water colour painting............ please give my some advice. Some of my friends told me that lighting sense could not be taught, they said people got that when they were born. HOwever, I want to learn more. Now I am having trouble to define which movie or animation is well lit and which ones are not. I do not know how to judge. Can someone give me more guidelines what make a good CGI lighting? Any help will be greatly appreicated! bruce Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digitallysane Posted April 1, 2007 Share Posted April 1, 2007 Some of my friends told me that lighting sense could not be taught, they said people got that when they were born. HOwever, I want to learn more. Now I am having trouble to define which movie or animation is well lit and which ones are not. I do not know how to judge. Can someone give me more guidelines what make a good CGI lighting? Any help will be greatly appreicated! It's totally untrue, this can be learned very well. Photography would surely help very much. I suppose you already know Digital Lighting and Rendering (yes, it starts with 3 point lighting but there's much useful info in there). You could also look for interior design or architectural design books. A search on Amazon for "lighting design" gives a lot of results. Also, look into cinematography lighting books. I have "Painting with Light" by Alton and it's wonderful, even if it talks about old bw techniques. Another problem to take into account is the software. Unfortunately, Houdini is hard to use, unintuitive and lacks a lot of tools out-of-the box when it comes to lighting. So besides of having to learn a new discipline, you also have to fight with the tools. Maybe for the purpose of learning you should buy some software which does that more straightforward (Softimage XSI Foundation, which is 500USD, comes to mind, but be aware that except for its wonderful lighting/shading workflow, XSI sucks compared to Houdini). Dragos Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andz Posted April 2, 2007 Share Posted April 2, 2007 I like to use natural media paintings and old Disney cartoon (cinderella, snow white...) as references for running away for the tech look of digital lights. And also, remember that a great lighting needs a great material. And not always a material that looked good in one scene will look good in any other scene. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mario Marengo Posted April 2, 2007 Share Posted April 2, 2007 It's very, very tough to judge lighting (beyond the bare basics of key+bounce+fill) without good shaders for both lights and surfaces. You're likely going to spend most of your time just compensating for deficiencies in the shaders/renderers, than artistically "painting with light". This, perhaps more so than things like intuitive tools to position the lights and so on, is the biggest problem to overcome... IMHO. For example: how useful do you think it would be (as an exercise) to light a scene "beatifully" using point, cone, and directional lights, and all surfaces set to "Phong"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattd Posted April 3, 2007 Share Posted April 3, 2007 I learned lighting by having to replicate live action plates, and also by spending time with a gaffer and watching each lights effect on the scene. Anywhere you can see the behind the scenes of a complex lighting situation (photography, cinematography, or other good CG examples) will be useful. I also agree with the other posters, except that I think houdini stands about the same as other packages when it comes down to setting up lighting, but only after you are very comfortable with it. One major workflow milestone I crossed was learning how to use the desktops effectively, since keeping 3 panes synced and trying to jump between the object level, SHOPs and Vops made it very difficult to keep track of what you are doing. MD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stu Posted April 3, 2007 Share Posted April 3, 2007 Personally I've always approached lighting and rendering from a painter's/sculpter's point of view rather than a photographer's, but that's just me. I think that one has to be more inventive and creative with their solutions than merely positioning lights and pointing a camera. I'd hire Michelangelo over Leibovitz any day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoki Posted April 4, 2007 Share Posted April 4, 2007 I have to agree with stu since october I am in london and almost every free day i go in galleries like national or tate britain I think even judging just lighting we havent even scratched surface in cg compared what those guys did with brush and paint! well this is obvius remark from me since I have painting/fine arts degree but if you read recent remarks from dennis murren you will see this is excatly what hes is talking about and writing in hes book that I cant wait to get when its published I am also a little tired when I see people rendering character and huge landscape with sam lens setting all this knowledge derived from fine art in past 2K years be it on west or orient is so helpful!!! and this is for me still one of the best books: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Treatise-Painting-...5022&sr=8-2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael Posted April 4, 2007 Share Posted April 4, 2007 lighting in black and white first is a nice technique...color can really distract... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stu Posted April 19, 2007 Share Posted April 19, 2007 Yeah, I've heard of that but I've never actually tried it. Some of my drawing instructors would put us through exercises that would serve to remove the preconceptions from our work and force us to see in the abstract, like working upsidedown or drawing without looking at the paper, things like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andz Posted April 20, 2007 Share Posted April 20, 2007 Some of my drawing instructors would put us through exercises that would serve to remove the preconceptions from our work and force us to see in the abstract, like working upsidedown or drawing without looking at the paper, things like that. Yep, I've done that... they call it drawing with the right side of your brain Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brucelay Posted April 22, 2007 Author Share Posted April 22, 2007 Could anyone suggest some basic or foundamental exercises for lighting? so that I could try something to begin with. (I am now trying to mimic some comic book's lighting style to begin with.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoki Posted April 23, 2007 Share Posted April 23, 2007 hi this is a nice course and you can see all online http://accad.osu.edu/~smay/DigitalLighting/ hope it helps z Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andz Posted April 23, 2007 Share Posted April 23, 2007 I'd recomend THIS since is not related to CG lighting, that usualy end up looking like a CG scene.... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brucelay Posted April 24, 2007 Author Share Posted April 24, 2007 Dear Andz, Thank you so much! This kind of tutorial is exactly what I have been looking for! Thanks a lot! bruce I'd recomend THIS since is not related to CG lighting, that usualy end up looking like a CG scene.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andz Posted April 24, 2007 Share Posted April 24, 2007 Dear Andz,Thank you so much! This kind of tutorial is exactly what I have been looking for! Thanks a lot! bruce I'm glad you liked it. Now start rendering some images for us.... :batman: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brucelay Posted May 1, 2007 Author Share Posted May 1, 2007 Hi there, Before I go in front of the computer, I listed out the follow steps for doing lighting design. Since this is my first time to find a way to do lighting design, if you think there are some points that I am missing, please feel free to let me know. Lighting design steps: What is the theme? What is the atmosphere? What is the emotion? Any target audiences? What is the time/season of the scene? Collect similar references/target images Define main light colours, light direction, light type, light distance List out the primary object that should be focused on List out the secondary object that should be for garnishing What kind of specular highlight is the most appropriate to define this object Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andz Posted May 2, 2007 Share Posted May 2, 2007 Hi Bruce, I think you got it all covered up. Now you just have to make it all flow naturally ;-) And not get too much tied in the technical aspects of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stu Posted May 2, 2007 Share Posted May 2, 2007 Good advice, I just work backwards from the picture that I have in my head. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Posted May 3, 2007 Share Posted May 3, 2007 I just push buttons until something looks good and then pretend that that was what I intended all along. foolproof! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stu Posted May 4, 2007 Share Posted May 4, 2007 Yeah, me too. "I meant for the shadows to flash on and off like that." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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