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Efficient Facing Ratio


Farsheed Ashouri

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Hi. Is there a very fast way of attaching shaders diffuse to a facing ratio node's output? I do it in 15 seconds in maya, I know houdini has a way for doing it. Just remember if you want to suggest me to writing a code, mention the way of doing it step by step. I am familiar with coding, but I don't know Houdini' pipeline. :)

Thanks in advanced,

Farsheed Ashouri,

Tehran, Iran.

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Hi. Is there a very fast way of attaching shaders diffuse to a facing ratio node's output? I do it in 15 seconds in maya, I know houdini has a way for doing it. Just remember if you want to suggest me to writing a code, mention the way of doing it step by step. I am familiar with coding, but I don't know Houdini' pipeline. :)

Thanks in advanced,

Farsheed Ashouri,

Tehran, Iran.

create a VOP shader. Lay down a Global Variables VOP and an Edge Falloff VOP. Connect N and I from the Global Var VOP to the Edge Falloff VOP. Connect the output of the Edge Falloff VOP (color) to Cd on the Output VOP.

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create a VOP shader. Lay down a Global Variables VOP and an Edge Falloff VOP. Connect N and I from the Global Var VOP to the Edge Falloff VOP. Connect the output of the Edge Falloff VOP (color) to Cd on the Output VOP.

Thanks, I got it. :lol: Now if I want to implement it on a Car paint shader, What I shoudl I do? Could you please upload a very simple network?

Thnaks again.

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With either the Edge Falloff VOP or the Alpha Mix VOP (both can be used for fake fresnel effects in shaders), they both do not need to have the I or N wired in as they do that by default.

See the attached example file for both methods: Edge Falloff and Alpha Mix. Both controlling a Color Mix VOP.

VOP Nodes are commented to help out a bit.

fake_fresnel_facing_angle.hip

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With either the Edge Falloff VOP or the Alpha Mix VOP (both can be used for fake fresnel effects in shaders), they both do not need to have the I or N wired in as they do that by default.

See the attached example file for both methods: Edge Falloff and Alpha Mix. Both controlling a Color Mix VOP.

VOP Nodes are commented to help out a bit.

fake_fresnel_facing_angle.hip

Not an easy way. I think Maya's trademark "Can you Imagine?" is correct!!!

I ask you guys a simple way of doing it. Not dozens of network components.

Anyway, thank you all. I can see maya wins in this areas.

Farsheed.

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Oi...

I think Maya's trademark "Can you Imagine?" is correct!!!

Agreed. Besides, how could someone resist such a catchy tagline?

That's what Houdini needs! A catchy slogan like "Can you imagine..!". I mean, it's so... oh I don't know... Kewl!

I do it in 15 seconds in maya

15 seconds?!?

Oh crap... It takes me like forever to put down one VOP in bloody Houdini.

Time to switch.

Can you imagine...!!

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Anyway, thank you all. I can see maya wins in this areas.

Farsheed.

I don't think you have any idea what you're talking about, mate. While Maya is a great piece of software (agree!), I would expect much greater experience with *both applications to dare giving such opinions from anyone.

cheers,

skk.

PS There are people here who have worked professionally with both applications for +10 years. Think about it :)

Edited by SYmek
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Not an easy way. I think Maya's trademark "Can you Imagine?" is correct!!!

I ask you guys a simple way of doing it. Not dozens of network components.

Anyway, thank you all. I can see maya wins in this areas.

Farsheed.

You know, there are definitely some cases where the methodology of Houdini may appear convoluted in comparison to more "ready-made" solutions as featured in Maya, mostly explainable by the greater "depth" that Houdini allows for. I think everyone will admit that. But you picked one of the cases where the Houdini approach is actually at least as simple if not even more logical than the really messed up Hypergraph, so I don't think that your criticism has any validity.

And to be quite frank, public application bashing is childish, and really worsens the signal-to-noise ratio on any forum, and this is one forum where that ratio is really cool right now, so maybe you should rephrase your opinions to make them less immature.

cheers,

Abdelkareem

PS: "can you imagine?" is actually abbreviated from "can you imagine your own cool slogan? because our marketing department can't."

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hi Farsheed Ashouri well just study about Digital Assets in Houdini then actually Im tired go going to hypershade and get things done...

well just tell me one thing...

I want to do the following in Maya...

create a facing ratio with attenuated and with arround 10 different noise functions with some of the math in it...

and tell me how can you reuse it? just export and Import?

where is modularity in Maya...

Its all about how you can build things and reuse them when required... :)

well I want a complete working tool in maya which does facing ratio with tons of controls.... and reuse it as many times as required at many locations...

at some point I want to contol an attribute using the vops... how easy to do it in H rather than in Maya...

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Well guys, Thanks you all.

1- I mentioned that I want to switch to Houdini. ;)

2 I wrote Maya wins in "Facing ratio" specific topic area not all areas. :rolleyes:

3- Do not try to convince me that Houdini is better than Maya, I know in many way, Houdini might be better. :unsure:

4- In many Maya forums, people trying to help you instead of fight with you. :angry:

5- I know Mantra is far better than Maya' native renderer. :D

6- We can do math in "Sampler info" node, thanks to Mel and Python in maya. :lol:

7- You spoke about digital assets, Why don't you bring me an example? In that case my problem will be solved and this thread will be closed. ;)

8- I don't know how to manage HUGE scenes in Houdini. (Like layering, sets, ...) Would you please help me or point me to a reference? B)

9- What are bundeles and how can I use them? B)

10- Thanks in advanced for your cooperation. :rolleyes:

Farsheed Ashouri, :ph34r:

Tehran, Iran.

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Well guys, Thanks you all.

1- I mentioned that I want to switch to Houdini. ;)

2 I wrote Maya wins in "Facing ratio" specific topic area not all areas. :rolleyes:

3- Do not try to convince me that Houdini is better than Maya, I know in many way, Houdini might be better. :unsure:

4- In many Maya forums, people trying to help you instead of fight with you. :angry:

You're welcome. Your question was detailed answered. Someone (actually someone quite special) has even prepared example for you. Hard to imagine better treatment and this is a standard that forum operates under. Your answer for that was, well, at least strongly inadequate.

No one was convincing you Houdini is better nor bashing Maya. You simple said something silly and people tried to explain, why you're wrong. Because you're - even if "facing ratio" in Maya is indeed easier for you. What next? Maya supremes Houdini in splash screen competition?

5- I know Mantra is far better than Maya' native renderer. :D

6- We can do math in "Sampler info" node, thanks to Mel and Python in maya. :lol:

We know that too, and that's a whole point. You cannot write a single line of shader in Maya's environment. A correct comparison, if you really need one, would be Mantra and PRMan RAT for Maya, not hypershade.

7- You spoke about digital assets, Why don't you bring me an example? In that case my problem will be solved and this thread will be closed. ;)

I don't know, maybe your answer intimidates people here? You talk like a Houdini & Maya guru. What you think?

8- I don't know how to manage HUGE scenes in Houdini. (Like layering, sets, ...) Would you please help me or point me to a reference? B)

9- What are bundeles and how can I use them? B)

10- Thanks in advanced for your cooperation. :rolleyes:

Farsheed Ashouri, :ph34r:

Tehran, Iran.

Start a new thread. Keep it polite. Take care!

skk.

Edited by SYmek
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Hey there,

Please stick around; you'll see that the people on odforum are all fantastic, skilled, artistic, mellow individuals; like a family you never wanted ;).

We're honoured have special guests from Side Effects themselves here too.

Take care,

Jason

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With a thankful heart, I want to ask you a opportunity to share some thoughts about what has happened in this thread.

1- I want to switch to Houdini, and because I want to learn it as fast as possible, I lost my control:)

2- You are fun. Please accept me as a fool member and let me ask some stupid questions about Houdini. Remember my mind is contaminated with Maya. :blink:

Sincerely,

Farsheed Ashouri,

Tehran, Iran.

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  • 3 months later...
With a thankful heart, I want to ask you a opportunity to share some thoughts about what has happened in this thread.

1- I want to switch to Houdini, and because I want to learn it as fast as possible, I lost my control:)

2- You are fun. Please accept me as a fool member and let me ask some stupid questions about Houdini. Remember my mind is contaminated with Maya. :blink:

Sincerely,

Farsheed Ashouri,

Tehran, Iran.

Hej little houdini 'master' i will tell you something i am a maya User for years 3 Years in film production. By now iam working on commercials. The switch to Houdini in some ways wasn't easy. It takes more than a year. But after i done it. After i understand how i can combine Maya and Houdini i startet to forget that maya is main. it isnt. If you try to make some good stuff in short time i use maya. But when i know at the beginnig that i have to do some special stuff. when i know that i have to creat alot of assets and a lot of special effects i use houdini and nuke in between. Houdini gives me best results in photorealism and speed.

First thing you have to think about is, that you can reuse your houdini assets in every shape in every way. and believe me i hate maya at the asset level....because you cannot add in easy way like in houdini's way some new stuff to your assets.

ok i hope you understand what i mean, yesterday i got some partys and iam tired. so bye

Edited by Mainframe123
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hi Farsheed,

It takes time to understand. Btw Houdini`s shading system is very similar to Renderman Shading Language and you should be good at RSL coz if you are not able to create Facing ratio then you might face problem with complicated stuff. Btw we are all here to help you out. Just a matter of year time there are lots of guys who can help you. But foir the God sake dont compare Maya with H.

Just remember that when you want more flexibility things get complicated to understand and when things are simple to operate ( like Maya ) the capability is very limited. So it takes time dude...

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  • 2 weeks later...
Just remember that when you want more flexibility things get complicated to understand and when things are simple to operate ( like Maya ) the capability is very limited. So it takes time dude...

Yeah i have to agree..

in my words i will say. maya and all the other stuff is good for creating very good images. When you got the task to muliply this by factor 1000 ( maybe small things like procedural shading or modeling) you have to switch to houdini , so you can save alot of time and money. Last week we got the task to rebuild a street...in 3d with 2.5D Renderings. by that we got the problem that we have to do lot of modeling work...most are tweeking stuff....in more than 15 shots and hundreds of small peaces...so we decided to use houdini for procedural modeling, scene setup and asset management.... after we got the scene we translated all that stuff to maya via our pipeline and renderd it out.

When you will reach the target by maximum quality try to look behind the borders of your 3d application. 3d is more than only one software..its the combination of all what you got. like Zbrush. Bodypaint, Maya, Houdini, Vray or Renderman of even better Mantra

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With either the Edge Falloff VOP or the Alpha Mix VOP (both can be used for fake fresnel effects in shaders), they both do not need to have the I or N wired in as they do that by default.

See the attached example file for both methods: Edge Falloff and Alpha Mix. Both controlling a Color Mix VOP.

VOP Nodes are commented to help out a bit.

fake_fresnel_facing_angle.hip

I was actually playing with this idea last night :D

I did it kinda different , but I like this idea, nice, very nice tip Mr. old school

I did it like the simple ramp shader using a frontFace and a normalfalloff

and a ramp to control the bias

I came up with this in the process

post-3040-1244570474_thumb.png

and Farsheed, chill out man, we are all brothers here :D

I made you a scene with a couple of nodes based on Old School's scene, the rest of the nodes

he created there are the parameters for the shader, he was kind enough to make you

a full working shader

here's the uber simplified scene

_mix_fakeFresnel_v01.hip

and my crosshatch scene if anyone is interested on that

_mix_shaders_v01.hip

welcome to the magic of houdini man

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