Best Particles and fluid simulation tool?

[ISUther]

Hello,

I have a question regarding animating fluids, particles and other similar effects.
What tool would you suggest and why?
I did google around and i see so many out there.
x-particles, real-flow and many others.
 

[michael]

you may want to add Houdini to that list.

[ISUther]

Yep i know that Houdini has them too but question is what is best or is there such thing as best.
Usually one thing is good for one thing and another thing is good for another.
As i am not interested in learning to code (Houdini VEX)
I have used Houdini but not much.
I have used Cinema 4D but have not got the x-particles 3.5
Never used Maya
Used a little Real-flow.
And at the moment i am searching answers what system is best that is easy to use but can get quality out.
As i have not used all those systems i cant make up my mind what application to focus on as they all have learning curve,
And i was wondering may be some system is more out of date then another.
At the start i want to focus more to different kind of logo animations and effects (revealing effects, freezing effects, burning effects, liquid effects etc) and later grab more and more.
Here are some examples what i have created so far,
I know it is not much and quality is not perfect (mostly because i wanted to render out faast and then choose low quality) and now i see it was a huge mistake.
+ many animations are damn short

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited July 27, 2016 by ISUther

[Guest tar]

In the end it doesn't matter which package you use; you'll only have the control that Houdini gives, in Houdini.  

[Farmfield]

IMO, the best fluid solver in regard to the look is the physbam one ILM has, Naiad is also great. That being said, seeing Houdini implemented the Disney APIC stuff into the FLIP solver in Houdini 15, I have a hard time believing Houdini can't compete with the aforementioned solvers.

Add to that the level of control in Houdini - there's just no way anything beats Houdini in regard to control because you can't get more than complete control. As a crazy example, you could setup depth based viscosity with one line of VEX in a POP wrangle (*) - that is what makes Houdini so badass, IMO, at least.

* @viscosity *= (@P.y < 0) ? @P.y * -1 * <some multiplier> : 1;

Edited July 28, 2016 by Farmfield

[Skybar]

All of it is just tools anyway. Use the one you are most comfortable with and it'll turn out better than using a tool you don't understand. With that said, Houdini offers a lot of flexibility in a procedural environment that is tough to beat. Even if the solver itself would be slower than the competition (just as an example), the power of the whole package would make up for that anyway. You are given control over everything and can do whatever you want.

[ISUther]

Point is that i don't know where i am comfortable. I am no near to be Houdini expert but learning constantly.
VEX is what scares me.
I did try coding some time ago. My brain is too stupid to learn coding and i am afraid that i cant be good in Houdini because i do not know VEX very well. Years back i did try JAVA programming language and i did not like it. Was too complex for me.
And i always liked video effects, animating stuff etc way more.
(the way those things look) so i decided to learn that.
I started off from Adobe After Effects but discovered soon as it is more like compositing program then 3D program where you create detailed effects.
But it is all layer based on object based and layer based does not give often result that you are after.
Then i decided to try Houdini.
And here i am thinking is Maya easier to learn then houdini?
Can you be good in houdini when you do not always understand those node connections what something does especially those that are on deepest level
 

[Skybar]

You don't need to know VEX, you don't even have to use it if you don't want to. You can just use VOPs instead, which is a visual way of coding in VEX and a lot easier to wrap your head around. Tbh doing interesting stuff in Maya require a lot more coding/scripting.

[ISUther]

Thank you all so much for replies. It helps me a lot.
I have worked over 6 years as IT Support (IT Help Desk, IT Service Desk level 1, IT Service Desk level 2 and also On Site IT Support) + some application testing but for me that is not so interesting as dooing animations aor some cool visual effects.
Idea is to learn how to do them and then may be one day i get hired by company who is doing commercials etc and decides to bring me in. I have no option to go to university to study this (complicated life)
and this is why i need to learn things on my own using internet.
At the moment this is a big dream to get job related to design and animations etc.
I measure myself always how productive i can be. Can i deliver etc.
At the moment i am not ready specialist who can do jaw dropping effects or animations but this is the goal.
Step by step. Another reason why i choose to do design and stuff like that instead is that those skills increase my overall value in this world. But when i go to another it company and learn internal program they use as there is always the chance that you get layd off or company decides to close the door and i end up wasting my time learning program that no one else use as it is internal software that no one else uses and therefore it does not increase my value in market.
+ some of those internal programs are so boring..
But this animation and vfx stuff gets me hyped like small kid before Christmas.

So u think Houdini is best option as i understand?
But what about modelling a detailed logo or rigging?

For example i need to create at the moment a logo with leafs like on the image you see.
I wanted to create it in 3D with extreme details as idea is to make leafs grow from both sides and use close up camera angles so leaf has to have extreme details and may be add also win d or rain effect to leafs
As i understand that effect part is possible in Houdini but what about creating leafs and that detail structure to leaf.
use zbrush for that? and import object from there to Houdini? (i don't even know is that possible)

I am sorry for my poor English as it is not my native.

 

 

[ISUther]

forot to add attachment

[Farmfield]

The problem with Houdini isn't it's complicated, I think this is probably the easiest 3D application in many ways because it's all very low level - in a good way - the problem with Houdini is, it's a lot to take in. And I don't mean like a lot to take in when you start learning, it's just a lot to take in period, so it takes time. The upside is, it's throughout ,amazingly consistent, so you use and reuse a lot of the same methodology wherever you are and whatever you do, so a point in a mesh is a particle is a grain is a FLIP fluid particle, and in most regards, you can really handle them the same way.

[ISUther]

Have to learn about those flip fluids and those other effects. So far i have tried not to use shelf tools and followed different tutorials.
As you can see logo here (take a look at attachment).
I had idea of doing logo animation based on this tutorial: 

But i am not sure i can use custom leafs.
As when you take a look at logo u see that it has different shape of leafs.
And as there is only 6 leafs on one side and 6 leafs on another side.
And here arises question should the leafs be modeled in zbrush or some other application or may be make leafs (somehow) from leafs that u can see on picture (as there are ways to create 3d object from 2d)
And as i wanted to use close up camera on some frames.  I am sure i will stay with houdini as i have all-ready invested alot of time in to this program.
I think i need to create seperate topic where i ask about this tutorial and how to create those leafs.

This foorum is prooven allready to be AMAZING as people help and are friendly. No one is flaming me when i ask (maby stupid questions).

Thank you all for this.

[michael]

all of those leaves can be made in Houdini - make one leaf and with copy stamping you can adjust the parameters that build the leaves to get the different looks.

[Farmfield]

I actually never done it, but there's a trace SOP in Houdini, it'll create splines from a 2D image, then you just extrude that, or feed it into a VDB, smooth and then mesh it.

Edited July 28, 2016 by Farmfield

[ISUther]

I will try this but at the moment can`t as i am afraid to jam my pc as mantra is rendering one test project i did.
At the moment it has rendered all ready 131 hours and it has done 149 frames from 900 frames.
I hope i get something beautiful out of it.
My problem with previous animations has been that they are too short so u got no chance to make something out of them.
Need to investigate is there some settings and options that allow me to render video or animation out with faster speed in Houdini.
In attachment you can see what it has rendered so far.
I am rendering TIF sequence for adobe after effects as i want to make final polish there with one tool
 

[rbowden]

131 hours for 149 frames of that is definitely too much. Someone gave you some good advice on what is wrong with your scene over at the sidefx forums. Have you tried what they suggested yet?

http://www.sidefx.com/forum/topic/45305/

[ISUther]

Not yet as i was not sure it will help as one person commented there. Mantra is slow and there is no fix for that. But also he mentioned octane renderer.
Octane may render way faster?

[Guest tar]

7 minutes ago, ISUther said:

Not yet as i was not sure it will help as one person commented there. Mantra is slow and there is no fix for that. But also he mentioned octane renderer.

Well, that person aspires to be in the vfx industry whilst the rest of us are in the industry.   Take your pick of what to follow....

[ISUther]

Thank you for pointing that out. Have not looked there for a while as was also looking diferent beginner tutorials on houdini.
I will take it to a count and i will try to get octane render

[rbowden]

Wait what? Did you even click on the link and look? There are two replies to your topic. One of them is saying about how Mantra is just slow which is just incorrect. It can be slow in some situations but, 90% of the time it is because of wrong settings/setup. Look at the last post in that thread by tinkyhawkus. He gives you some suggestions on how you can optimize your scene...