the one million question... how much $$$ you get as hou

[dyei nightmare]

ok, i think everyone at certain moment, thinks about this aspect... how much money can you espect to get being an specialist on this software?? is it worth to invest time getting deeper into this for money profit? can you espect a decent salary working in a company as houdini artist?

[rdg]

http://www.vfxwages.com/

[lukeiamyourfather]

It depends a lot on experience and aptitude. If you want to make a lot of money there are plenty of other jobs out there. For example a private security contractor in Iraq makes several times more than your average Houdini artist. Then again nobody shoots at Houdini artists on the job.

Edited April 12, 2011 by lukeiamyourfather

[hopbin9]

You can make money using this software? Holycrap! How???

[Macha]

About minimum wage.

[pclaes]

I like this spreadsheet -- seems to give a fairly good representation and range, although you should take the area where the company is located into account:

https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0Aou3k7ExaTQjdHZ0S2dKMjhfY0lmN2tmTDRESEhjbHc&hl=en&authkey=CNDxyJwF#gid=0

originally posted here:

http://vfxsoldier.wordpress.com/2010/08/16/wages-in-the-vfx-animation-and-games-industry/

Initially you won't be paid that much, but if you show that you can handle complex effects and that you can build effects tools (for other team members to use), you can jump up quickly. That tool building skill saves time and makes you highly productive, which makes you highly employable, with several offers from several companies you have a better overview of what the market offers and what you can ask for. As you grow into the industry I doubt you will have trouble finding a job as a houdini artist at a good rate - you may have to travel the world a little though, before you settle.

Building up your own reputation helps but is a long term process. Your own website/blog/vimeo portfolios and activity on the forums all help towards this. The problem I sometimes have is that I will know people from the forums by their nickname rather than their real name. It is one of the reasons I chose not to use a nickname any more as it is part of marketing yourself. It helps if people know your name and your work before they get to know you in person.

[Macha]

One of the main problem as I see it is location. I don't know where you are based but if it isn't anywhere near a big cluster of CG monster companies you'll have trouble finding (well paid) Houdini employment.

So, you've got to be willing and able to travel, move countries and cities. That means constantly worrying whether you're on a project 3 months after. For example, it took me 1 year to get a working visa for Japan. Yeah, that's one year of hanging about not knowing what you gonna do next week, not able to commit to this or that. You can't keep doing that for a long time. There's also a lot of cost involved in moving around, so your great salary evaporates quite quickly.

If you are a EU citizen, it's quite easy to move around at least Europe, even though the problem of "building a life" remains after the initial hey-cool-I-make-CG. Some people do make nice careers out of it but I doubt you can actually plan such a thing. There's just too much serendipity involved and nobody's gonna wait for you to come from faraway. There are clever people almost anywhere you go. Pick 20 people from the street and I bet, uh, 5 of them could be turned into top-notch Houdini artists, given the right circumstances.

To be honest, I think if you've got the brains to be a great Houdini artist and make money with it, then -strange conclusion coming- forget about it and do something else. Be a nuclear technician, chemical engineer, NSA mathematician, entrepreneur, butcher, or whatever else clever people can do to get great jobs and good money.

There's one more reason to be a Houdini artist, and it's why I am one, and that's because you like doing it. Don't do it because you want to be rich and make money.

But if all else fails, there's always apricot farming, the one thing that never fails.

Edited April 13, 2011 by Macha

[brianburke]

To be honest, I think if you've got the brains to be a great Houdini artist and make money with it, then forget about it and do something else.

seems bleak

[hopbin9]

If you are a EU citizen, it's quite easy to move around at least Europe, even though the problem of "building a life" remains after the initial hey-cool-I-make-CG. Some people do make nice careers out of it but I doubt you can actually plan such a thing. There's just too much serendipity involved and nobody's gonna wait for you to come from faraway. There are clever people almost anywhere you go. Pick 20 people from the street and I bet, uh, 5 of them could be turned into top-notch Houdini artists, given the right circumstances.

Well, I disagree

While it's true local hiring is easier, it's also based upon different requirements and that's often cheap labor. You've got the kind of skills I wish I could afford to hire

[dyei nightmare]

I like this spreadsheet -- seems to give a fairly good representation and range, although you should take the area where the company is located into account:

https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0Aou3k7ExaTQjdHZ0S2dKMjhfY0lmN2tmTDRESEhjbHc&hl=en&authkey=CNDxyJwF#gid=0

thanks all of you for the replies, but i wanna ask you something else, i was reading long time ago...

is a houdini artsist more employable than maya artists for example? i know it depends on what kind of work the company need to do, but what is more valuable? i feel like there are a lot maya/3d max artist and less houdini artist, due this, are houdini artist more valuable??

[hopbin9]

thanks all of you for the replies, but i wanna ask you something else, i was reading long time ago...

is a houdini artsist more employable than maya artists for example? i know it depends on what kind of work the company need to do, but what is more valuable? i feel like there are a lot maya/3d max artist and less houdini artist, due this, are houdini artist more valuable??

There are many more Maya licenses out there being used by studios then Houdini licenses. So if you view employ ability as a studio having an empty seat that needs filling, then it's less likely with Houdini.

[Macha]

is a houdini artsist more employable than maya artists for example? i know it depends on what kind of work the company need to do, but what is more valuable? i feel like there are a lot maya/3d max artist and less houdini artist, due this, are houdini artist more valuable??

It's like nature; If you specialize in feeding on a rare, hard to get, and otherwise poisenous nut then you'll thrive if you find a tree or even a field of it because you're only one feeding on it. But if there isn't the tree or it dies out then you're stuffed.

If somebody near you needs a Houdini artist then you almost just have to "show up to the interview", as they say, and all is good.

So, you want to be a rat or a hummingbird?

Edited April 13, 2011 by Macha

[hopbin9]

Did you just call Houdini a nut? and Maya artists rats.

lol

[ykcosmo]

in AUS, the cleaners earn nearly the same salary as houdini FX.

Clothing sells earn 2/3 of FX.

Bar jobs earn 1/2 of FX.

etc.

[pclaes]

The way I see it is less linked to software. In order to be truly good at Houdini you have to understand 3d. Houdini is very good at helping you understand 3d algorithms and math as it does not hide away some of the data that is so useful for fx. At the higher effects level of Maya it is all scripting or API, whether you are dealing with particles or fluids... perhaps rbd's is more plugin based, but still.

Marc is right about the tree analogy, but if you look at it over a broader period of time I think the amount of trees have grown. Meaning that there are more studios taking up houdini as part of their pipeline. Even hardcore Maya studios like Weta and ILM are now looking for experienced houdini TD's. The only reason why I would switch back to Maya is if I were to settle in a country where there are absolutely no Houdini studios... and even then... I would probably try to negotiate a houdini license as part of my contract... simply to blow their mind with what it can do for them - with all the hip files and knowledge on the forums we are learning a lot "in the cloud" already so being the only houdini artist is less of an issue when you become more experienced. At that stage it becomes more of a cost like a workstation and it would be a long term investement. This would definitely not be part of a short term contract, but anything over 2 years... seems reasonable.

Also I would try to convert other Maya effects artists around me, sounds like a sect . But as I used to be a Maya effects artist I know what they are/were struggling with. Also most Maya effects td's show a certain interest in Houdini but never "dove into the pool". So sometimes all they need is a little push.

Having to go back to Maya does seem like a step down - simply because of the control and speed at which houdini allows you to make prototypes. Implementing a custom effect is based on the same principles, it is just a different platform. Maya does not have vops and I would seriously miss both the customizability as well as the speed they provide... also no digital assets... no sopsolver... no volume manipulation tools... no microsolvers... no HDK, no VRAYprocedurals, no renderman analogy (except if you are programming dso in renderman - but at that point it really does not matter which software). But instead you get a lot of scripts, tools, custom UI's, prebuilt renderpasses/animation layers, presets of fluids, ncloth and a huge community that has figured out a lot of problems for you already.

So... more valuable... not really. Truly good Maya Td's are also hard to find. When you start talking points, vectors, data management and algorithms, the actual software/implementation starts to matter less. Studios will have legacy tools and integration will take some time. I don't think I know many pure houdini only studios, I know more mixed studios.

I also don't know any houdini artists that do not have a job.

[Marc]

Well said Peter!

[~nature~]

I absolutely agree with peter, I had also switched to houdini from maya after several years sticking on it.

And houdini does broaden my horizon in the CG field and I know many under the hood whose meaning can only be guessed from the literal parameter labels, software documentation or duncan(the scientist who create maya fluids,paint effects,hair,toon)'s explanation in Cgtalk in the days when I was with maya.

So one of the most important reason why I love houdini is the relatively cheep freedom(without resorting to API) it assigns to me and at the same time give me the glasses through which I am able to see the CG world more clearly,which is the key to create the advanced visual effects and related tricks.

And again every software has its own pros and cons, and as peter told me, understanding both tech and art is the key to obtain the good td job. Houdini helps us a lot in the tech aspect.

The same principle applies to the renderman between many other rendering softwares.

Words from the author of "the renderman shading language guide"

Knowing renderman is a very precious skill to have ,even if you are not looking to become a shader or rendering technical director(TD) or if you are looking to work somewhere that doesn't use renderman. Most studios that don't use renderman as their render still search for people with renderman knowledge to fill their shading or rendering TD positions.Why? Because someone who knows renderman shading usually has deep understanding of how rendering works,of how illumination models are constructed, and how vectors are constantly manipulated to achieve the certain looks.This knowledge is transferable to any other render that you might need to use, so it is very valuable to employers.

Edited April 15, 2011 by ~nature~

[ranxerox]

Houdini is a delicious nut.

Did you just call Houdini a nut? and Maya artists rats.

lol