michael Posted July 11, 2003 Share Posted July 11, 2003 there is a thread over at cgchannel that some here might find interesting (if only for it's 'human observation' value) http://www.cgchannel.com/news/shownews.jsp?newsID=1670 I would be interested in what people here think/feel about the issues involved - if only in a general way...and I think the folks here are a bit less loony than most places Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Posted July 11, 2003 Share Posted July 11, 2003 Man those guys on cgchannel are a buncha nutters (No offense to anyone coming here from that wonderful forum ). Panic! Shock! PAIN!..... I can see it now, homeless american animators sleeping in the streets because all the jobs have left the country. Lawlessness runs rampant, brother killing brother for a piece of stale bread! "ooooohhh no! What shall we do" they cry. "Lets get t-shirts" they say, "Form a line" yell their british counterparts. Boycott is the word of the day! I can see the headlines now, "Low Level Artists Boycott Visual FX Studio!" Gimme a break. Buncha Doom Merchants. The odds of India doing high end visual effects anytime soon is pretty slim. I'm sure there are some pretty talented guys there but the logistics of it are just crazy. How long has Sydney or Toronto striven to become level with LA? Years n years n years, and they're still producing most of the work here. Why? Because most of the rest of the work is here. Its not like the entirety of Hollywood is picking up and sodding off to India. I heard/read the same things when I was coming here. There are entire organisations in the US whose sole interest is preventing foreigners from coming in here and taking their work. Its very sad, and mildly amusing all at the same time . ...sigh.... That was probably harsher than I intended, but I'm too tired to go back and type a new message. So take it for what its worth.... Marc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfwood Posted July 11, 2003 Share Posted July 11, 2003 Amen Mark. I don't understand why anyone would want to leave LA, it has the 405. Extreme sports are nothing compared to driving on it while going with the flow of traffic at 100mph. jim. Btw, isn't your state running on empty as far as money goes. First power, now money. It wouldn't be CA without some sort of looming disaster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Posted July 11, 2003 Share Posted July 11, 2003 Not my state man... . I just work here. I'm one of the nasty stinky foreigners. But then La is a dirty stinking city, so we're a perfect match . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stremik Posted July 11, 2003 Share Posted July 11, 2003 I'm one of the nasty stinky foreigners. But then La is a dirty stinking city, so we're a perfect match . I hear ya man! As for that guy who who started that nutty thread over at cgchannel, he just needs to seek professional help. PARANOYA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
athomas Posted July 11, 2003 Share Posted July 11, 2003 Wow, and I thought things were bad when I lived in L.A., looks like you're really going to hell now. One things that amazes me is nobody at that thread actually thought about the other side of the coin, Bollywood produces 10 times more movies then Hollywood, so there would be right away a much bigger demand for SFX. Hey if I had the money I'd open up a studio in India, you can't have a bigger emerging market. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old school Posted July 11, 2003 Share Posted July 11, 2003 Let's all face it. There isn't much talent left for this industry to pick up. It is at the dregs now. The schools are mostly to blame then the actual facilities not properly influencing schools followed by hollow marketing promises by interested parties. Moving some production to India does make sense as there is a very large pool of technical people there. Having said that, the technical level isn't as broad as it could be right now. The pockets that are technical are very technical and challenge the best in LA right now. I visited the largest CG facility in India a couple years ago and learned quite a bit. Some of it is quite interesting. For example, their render farm consisted of three people per 20 machines in the render farm running 24/7 in shifts. Their render farm was 600 machines. When a scene was ready for rendering, they would pull the hard drive out of the workstation, substitue another drive with the next scene preloaded then carry the drive to a machine in the render farm then babysit until the job was done and set up the finished drives with subsequent scenes and backup. Repeat ad nauseum. This would never work in LA as minimum wage is far to high in relation to minimum wage in India (non-existent fyi) and therein lies the issue. Think of the transfer rate if the drives are 100GB drives. No gigabit network can compare with a person carrying 100gb drives down the stairs to the renderfarm. Are general-level CG artists paid too much for the skills they have and the work they do? Compared to India, yep. There were many other examples of this happening. I saw some western people there and they were working with very talented Indian people and their work was excellent. They were in positions of great influence. It is only a matter of time before India and China establishes the back-bone to support full features at the same quality level as that in California for 3D features. They are already there in the 2D realm. There are many seats of US Animation in Taiwan and China doing direct to video animation work for the big three already and this is very organized and there are schools training people to do this.. I had the best time in India and I recommend this as a trip any time. I want to go back. The Sea of Bengal is fantastic and the people are amazing. Same for Taiwan and China. Want to go back there too to visit. Now if those people who are complaining were to visit these places... Oh wait, I didn't see a McDonald's in India or China. I guess they would starve then. Sorry about that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stremik Posted July 11, 2003 Share Posted July 11, 2003 Now if those people who are complaining were to visit these places... Oh wait, I didn't see a McDonald's in India or China. I guess they would starve then. Sorry about that. Good one! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Guest_zostera Posted July 16, 2003 Share Posted July 16, 2003 alter natively.... 3rd world firms such as weta have done well importing talented cg artists from around the globe. The flow of talent can work both ways between undeveloped and developed countries. And IBM's server industry (US-based?) has certainly benefitted from Weta's fungus-like growth at the bottom of the earth. How many blade servers has puwetaweta now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Posted July 16, 2003 Share Posted July 16, 2003 ...er.. I'd hardly call New Zealand a 3rd world country. I'm fairly certain they're just as developed as the US. But the fact that they came up from nowhere and are kicking ass is really impressive.... Marc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plan9 Posted July 18, 2003 Share Posted July 18, 2003 its a catch 22 situation... as far as i can see it... where it applies, US employees enjoy a fairly decsent benefits package...this isnt cheap. either we a) recall all the work from overseas and take a benefits cut or keep the benefits and keep out sourcing to the cheap labor countries. i dont want to see work leaving the country... but as it goes, living doesnt cater to the idealist, so i say, so be it we should place blame the bastards who own the insurance companies.... and the fat politicians AND the business clowns who run the show.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MG Posted July 18, 2003 Share Posted July 18, 2003 Wow, this is great news... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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