jason_slab Posted March 3, 2011 Share Posted March 3, 2011 If you enjoy ICE and XSI then that's great. There's choice out there for you . Me? I get annoyed working in closed systems, and XSI is a nice example of that, so I think I'll stay where I am. M i must agree with Marc here, i've played around with ICE quite a bit, i actually find houdini easier to use and i have way more freedom. just looking at the work-flow for some of the ICE modelling stuff, so you have your primitives that you created in SOFT, now you have to import your data you want to use in ICE.. i dunno, ICE does feel like it's a completely separate "module". now think about how simple it is to do some copy stamping in houdini. the only intrigue i have in ICE is the speed, i'm sure however that soon we'll see a change in Houdini, why because we know SESI listens! jason Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rohandalvi Posted March 4, 2011 Share Posted March 4, 2011 I think what Jason says is very true. ICE can be complicated to handle. especially to get the logic of it. Like the ICE modeling video, how would any average user know that in order to make any geometry work I have to do a "set topology". It doesn't make sense. Unlike Houdini where if I want a grid and extrude it I just take a grid and polyextrude, where as the ICE video even manages to make a simple extrude operation look complicated. ICE , to me, somehow always feels like too much math. It's like I am always in VOPS and I still don't like the whole sideways approach and everything connecting to the ICE tree node to execute. Houdini is simpler, with everything going linear and you have a start and end to your node tree. I do like the speed of it though. All I want from Houdini and sidefx now is to just make everything faster. Faster rendering especially. If they can match the speed of the modo renderer from version 501 then I will never have to use another software again with regards Rohan Dalvi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oktawu Posted March 4, 2011 Share Posted March 4, 2011 (edited) If they manage to properly multithread h, they have another user. Right now the biggest problem i have with it, and always had, is speed. I believe xsi is here to stay for a while, at least until they manage to port most of its ice logic into maya. Frankly, quite a bunch of shops have been pushing xsi for arnold. And it remains one of the best choices for small shops. Unfortunately its future is a little more than uncertain. (xsi user here since 1.5) Edited March 4, 2011 by oktawu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pclaes Posted March 4, 2011 Share Posted March 4, 2011 ICE , to me, somehow always feels like too much math. It's like I am always in VOPS and I still don't like the whole sideways approach and everything connecting to the ICE tree node to execute. Houdini is simpler, with everything going linear and you have a start and end to your node tree. I have not used ICE myself, but these days I spend most of my time in vops because of speed and math. I like having access to really simple math components and geometry operations, you build your complex math from them. Funny you mention the poly extrude as I am not too fond of that node. I would much rather duplicate a face, displace each point individually in whatever direction I want (this would be the vops part) and then connect it with the original polygon. What is the problem? I want all nodes in Houdini to be digital assets that I can dive into and change things to. Imagine a polyextrude sop that you could use as a template and change its' behaviour either in code or in vops. Right click on it: show source... A bit like an inline cpp with the python sop. As Swann mentioned it might be easier to write and share plugins for xsi, or share their ICE trees -- basically their form of digital assets. You could say that is what the exchange is for... but there is not much quality control there. I've been recreating most pop nodes in sops for my own purposes and they are all digital assets that you can jump inside, see the code, change the nodes, whatever... So I kind of disagree with saying Houdini is simpler. Through python you have functionality to create geometry, but if you want it fast you need to go to the HDK. If there could be any way that vops could be extended to include geometry operations such as create and delete point/primitive that would be great. The copy sop/foreach is good for small scenes but ultimately breaks down as it becomes very slow. Some of the new developments look nice, having physx for accelerating dynamics is nice - gpu accelerated physics also fascinate me. Sesi should ask DD to implement their bullet into houdini, with much more sop friendly control over constraints and setup for breaking and defining attributes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sanostol Posted March 7, 2011 Share Posted March 7, 2011 One thing I liked a lot in xsi is how it allows You to dynamicaly add plugins to a running instance of xsi. this makes plugin developement much slicker. And i think it is quite cool that You don't have to recompile plugins for every new version. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Swann Posted March 7, 2011 Share Posted March 7, 2011 Add to this that you can have for free 2-core licence for Softimage version of 3Delight that you can use without restrictions for commercial use. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digitallysane Posted March 7, 2011 Share Posted March 7, 2011 Add to this that you can have for free 2-core licence for Softimage version of 3Delight that you can use without restrictions for commercial use. This really isn't a reason to choose some software (especially a high-end 3D package) over another. Not to mention that you still get unlimited Mantra seats with Houdini. And if you choose to use 3Delight or any RenderMan compliant renderer, you get the best interface to it with Houdini. Dragos Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sanostol Posted March 7, 2011 Share Posted March 7, 2011 you can use the free 3dlight license on houdini, too. sidefx or autodesk has no influence on this, I guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oktawu Posted March 7, 2011 Share Posted March 7, 2011 (edited) you can use the free 3dlight license on houdini, too. sidefx or autodesk has no influence on this, I guess. I really doubt you can. The rule applies to the maya and xsi plugins only, not the standalone version. As for having a renderer as the reason for using a particular platform is not totally unheard of. For example, the current influx of xsi seats in some shops is mainly due to its arnold hook, and not xsi per se. To be honest, i think solidangle has prolonged its lifespan more than autodesk has. Edited March 7, 2011 by oktawu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sanostol Posted March 7, 2011 Share Posted March 7, 2011 (edited) mh, I then I totally missunderstood this: http://www.3delight.com/en/index.php?page=3delight_download as soon as You have it installed and some enviroments are set You can drop a rib node and select 3Deligth9.0 as rendertarget change the command to renderdl and now if You now hit render idisplay pops up with a render i did not test any shaders or something but I guess it means 3delight does it's job just installed the shaderotl that comes with 3delight, and it works very well I really doubt you can. The rule applies to the maya and xsi plugins only, not the standalone version. As for having a renderer as the reason for using a particular platform is not totally unheard of. For example, the current influx of xsi seats in some shops is mainly due to its arnold hook, and not xsi per se. To be honest, i think solidangle has prolonged its lifespan more than autodesk has. Edited March 7, 2011 by sanostol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oktawu Posted March 7, 2011 Share Posted March 7, 2011 mh, I then I totally missunderstood this: http://www.3delight.com/en/index.php?page=3delight_download as soon as You have it installed and some enviroments are set You can drop a rib node and select 3Deligth9.0 as rendertarget change the command to renderdl and now if You now hit render idisplay pops up with a render i did not test any shaders or something but I guess it means 3delight does it's job just installed the shaderotl that comes with 3delight, and it works very well ha, apparently it does include the standalone. how cool is that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zarti Posted March 20, 2011 Share Posted March 20, 2011 hi , i thought maya-2012 would be The End for the world of other 3d-apps =P ... now , the only thing that impresses me in ice videos is speed ( not in building trees , but performance ). i believe hou will get a lot of love ' there ' soon . once hou-makers reach that level of software performance in hou , they should start focusing to redefine slightly the workflow in certain areas to increase also the hou-user's performance . everyone seems' going nodal nowdays and everyone seems' got inspiration from hou . and maybe it is time for hou to keep an eye on the others for any 'nice' workflow innovation which might appear there . oc , without compromising its power ; openness and flexibility . .cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kursad Posted April 17, 2011 Share Posted April 17, 2011 There is a python script for that (LINK) maybe you can try to port it to Hou. That sounds like a CHOPS job to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dyei nightmare Posted April 18, 2011 Share Posted April 18, 2011 mmmmmmm... intereting thread, i would say that the distance between houdini and maya/xsi is getting closer... for sure, what is easy to do in houdini will be posible to do in xsi but not so easy, since you basically are playing and constructing with maths i think you have the same capabilities as vops. ice is not a practical tool yet, because as someone said, what if you need to do a realistic fire or shatter effect in one week or so??? you have better options like fume or houdini... i think you need a whole team of ice developers to consider jumping to that software... ice, is very powerfull due their vops nature, but is not a practical solution... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pelos Posted April 18, 2011 Share Posted April 18, 2011 well this is not a very interesting topic since some of the post are been done by non soft image user, or non ICE knowledge at all. and will start the flame in a Houdini Forum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dyei nightmare Posted April 18, 2011 Share Posted April 18, 2011 (edited) well this is not a very interesting topic since some of the post are been done by non soft image user, or non ICE knowledge at all. and will start the flame in a Houdini Forum. whats up, damian, how are you, i dont think this is a flame thread... i would say that houdini and xsi are for diferent focus and for a diferent tasks... the gap between these softwares is getting closer, but i clearly see how ice is more for a company with an entire deveoper team focused to develop new tools... in houdini you can do a plenty of effects with less human resources. Edited April 18, 2011 by dyei nightmare Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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