Houdini job

[baq]

Hi.

This is question to all profesional Houdini users who use this tool in production houses.

Is it real, possible for usual Houdini users to find any job in future??? I mean, look this way: I'm actually Maya user and heeyy there are Gnomons DVD's, Alias books and DVD's also. So I can gotta catch'em all and learn materials which I think can be proficient in future. With Houdini I got some tutorials from SideFx and Techimage and 3dBuzz, ok ok not bad but....

...I use Houdini non-comercial in home, my main focus: particles, rbd's, I don't think that companies like DigitalDomain want to employ such people, even they can do something, even they learnt all material from all this tutorials and all Houdini documentation. Am I right or not?

I mean there aren't any professional training for usual Houdini user!!! So how the hell studios can employ such people in future huh?! Some Maya or 3DMax users finished Ringling Szmingling schools and they can something valueble in pocket - diploma but are there any schools which learn Houdini? I mean that companies like DD and Weta are look for certified specialist compare it to Cisco certificate but in other field.

So I think that for show must go on there are some professional Houdini users which only change their places of job(production houses) and there are no chances for us. That's my point of view. Am I right or this is bull shit??

[Mcronin]

There are suprisingly a lot of Houdini jobs out there and it seems more and more popping up. There are a couple of schools that teach it, but currently no "official" certification that I know of. I know Savanah College of Art and Design teaches Houdini, as does,I think, Academy of Arts in San Francisco. Other than that, you just have to learn in the school of hard knocks. Certification really doesn't carry much weight for any software when it comes to graphics though. I can remeber Alias having certification for Power Animator... It didn't mean anything, just that you paid an assload of money to sit through a course for a few days. A real diploma from a 4 year school in Fine Art or Computer Science or Architecture or Mathematics or Physics or even Aerospace would serve you better than any certificate for a particular piece of software from a diploma mill CG school.

Do Buzz's tutorials, do SideFX's video tutorials, read the helpfiles and do the tutorials there. If you want to get into shading, get the three available renderman books, read the papers at Renderman.org. Become a permanent fixture here and on the Side FX forums. Ask questions, post things you make. You can even pick up those Alias DVDs and apply them to Houdini when you feel comfortable with the software. You can really work out any tutorial for any software in Houdini, save those that deal with very specific features like Maya Fluids or what have you. General modeling, rigging and animation tutorials should be no problem and you'll learn a lot along the way trying to find equivalent tools in Houdini. Give yourslef challenging little projects to do.

Back to the job situation though, I've been using Houdini for a bit less than 2 years and have already had 2 jobs using it. I feel more secure in my future using Houdini than I ever have using Maya or Max. It's true there aren't many places using Houdini, but the places that are, are pretty high profile and so are their projects. They all seem to be willing to make room for someone who is good with Houdini. Once you get your foot in the door somewhere, you'll no doubt get some really good experience and after that you'll be able to go anywhere, even if you have to switch applications down the road.

It's probably too late for this year, but I'd recommend working with Houdini until Siggraph next year. Side FX does a job fair at the user group meeting and throws a party. It's a good place to meet people, make contacts, and get your reel and resuume into the right hands.

[mark]

there is so much training material for mainstream apps because there are so many users, which makes producing the material profitable. (which probably in turn creates more users but thats another story).

yes it's frustrating trying to learn houdini, and you feel so alone, but you aren't. and it gets easier.

[edward]

By the way, there were two short-term job openings today on the mailing list.

[starkhorn]

Yeah I know exactly what you mean baq as I've been thinking the same as yourself. All you hear everywhere on 3dbuzz or cgtalk is how Maya is the industrial standard.....it makes it very tempting to just pack in Houdini and move over to Maya. I wish I could advise but I'm right with you in trying to learn this product and learn 3d art but thankfully wiser and more experience have come in with great advice.

McCronin, very silly question from me now as usual but.......

What 3 Pixar books were you talking about ? I'd be interested in those.

Cheers

Starkhorn

[puma.snyder]

He's talking about

RenderMan Companion

Advanced RenderMan

Essential RenderMan Fast

[Keyframe]

Heya everyone,

Thought i'd pipe up for a second with a bit of a "twisted" perspective. As usual, please take everything I say with a grain of salt.

I strongly believe that claiming [or wanting] to be a "Houdini Artist", or a "Maya Artist", or an "XSI Artist", is a little bit like being a carpenter who decides to use only the "philips head" screwdriver.

In principle, the underlying conecpts of CG are remarably similar across the board. Why should it matter which package you choose to use?! Why limit yourself in your options? [why JUST a philips head screwdriver?]

There is no question that you might feel more comfortable using one tool, or another, but can you really allow yourself to let job oppurtunities go by because you don't happend to like the type of screw driver that a particular place chose to use?

I suppose what i'm saying is that as a person who has chosen this [sometimes capricious] industry, is it not our responsibility to develop as wide a knowledge base as possible?! not Houdini, or Maya, or XSI - but , Houdini AND Maya AND XSI? [and Max, and lightwave, and shake, and math, and physics, and everything else that you can get your hands on...]

Just my 2, rapidly deprecaiting, Canadian cents...

Cheers,

Gene

[baq]

why JUST a philips head screwdriver?

heh for me it's rather like airplanes but not airplane A and B but rather Cessna and F22

and Max, and lightwave, and shake, and math, and physics, and everything else that you can get your hands on...]

life is to short to learn them all

[old school]

He's talking about

RenderMan Companion

Advanced RenderMan

Essential RenderMan Fast

I would also add a great book to the list:

Texturing and Modelling, A Procedural Approach

It is in it's third edition now. It has doubled in size from the second edition.

[lynbo]

In principle, the underlying conecpts of CG are remarably similar across the board.  Why should it matter which package you choose to use?!  Why limit yourself in your options?  [why JUST a philips head screwdriver?]

Here Here . We should ask ourselves what is it we do? We make pretty pictures

for the audience or client to look at. We make art. It is an Image! What we used to get there is irrelivant. Does'nt matter a rat's arse which software or hardware we used.

Is the Image good? Does it tell the story? Did it provoke an emotion?

If the answer is yes then you could have used the burnt end of a stick to make it.

Was that out loud?

Sorry lost my head for a moment.

[Rei Ayanami]

Mcronin : wasnt pointing out aerospace for any reason (starting an aerospace course in 1 year i hope )

Depending on what you want to do in houdini, you could take a comp sci course, but if your not going to be a proggie it may not be worth it (but then it is quite handy to have)

I am learning Lightwave (learnt?) XSI and Houdini, since i think at least one will be able to get me a job.

[Mcronin]

I pointed out aerospace because when I was working in games, the aerospace industry went into a slump between airline fare wars and Clinton cutting back on defense spending. There seemed to be a flood of aerospace engineers into game companies in the mid to late 90's. Aerospace engineers make fantastic game programers and I'd assume, fantastic effects TD's; especially if they've spent time working on government contracts

Stick with the aerospace degree Rei. It's a lucrative field that will open a lot of doors for you in other industires.

[gradualepiphany]

Sure, it would be great to know all of the 3D applications. Unfortunately it's really not feasable for most people to master the oddities of each package. I'm primarially a houdini guy, but I can also use Maya or Max - the principals are the same but the tools are rather different.

The reality of the professional world is that when a house needs artists, they need good ones and they need them NOW. They don't have time for people to learn new packages or get back up to speed with them - if there is a more specialized person avaliable they'll hire the person who can be productive immediately.

On another note altogether though, the Houdini artists I know tend to be different from most of the Maya artists I know - The nature of Houdini tends to draw in the people who want to know what's happening when they push buttons, wheras Maya tends to have a user base that doesnt care as long as it works. Because the Houdini users tend to have a much better grasp of the underlying principals of 3D, they tend to be pretty comfortable using any application. I don't think this is true of most of the Maya artists I know.

My recomendation is stick with houdini. I just graduated from school a few months ago and I'm working - there really seem to be a lot of jobs in the film world for good houdini artists. By the same token make sure you at least know your way around the other major packages, because you never know when you might have to use them

|andrew|

(edit: I really really really don't mean to imply that maya users are stupid or are all button pushers - just that the nature of houdini tends to attract a certain type of user. Maya's interface tends to make 3D more friendly for the non-technical person, which is arguably a very positive thing, at least for Maya.)

[mark]

its a good point, a programmer who knows assembly language will be a good visual basic programmer but the reverse isnt necessarily true.

[renderpipe]

I've been watching this thread in sidelines. I was getting a bit frustrated with my slow process of learning. I honestly was going to quit because I didn't think I could do it since it seems that houdini is very overwhelming for me. I completed all of the pdf & video sesi tutorials and did the buzz module 1 and this stuff hasnt' sink in my brain yet.

Now after reading everybodys comments, I'm going to stick with it.

Thank you to everyone who contributed to this thread because it is inspiring to me. Thanks to baq for starting the thread.

Perry

[baq]

I wonder on one thing: how usual Houdini user can find job?

Look at this way: You learn Houdini at home, You learn from all materials You find on the net - 3dBuzz, Techimage, etc. You studied doc and focused at one favourited area. Cool, now You learnt somethin. Made some stuff also, some flyin' sprites, some soft bodies, some strange head models.

Next You make simpe reel from stuff You made to sum studios. Do You think You'll find any Houdini job this way? The true is actual Houdini masters are people who started with Prism and they got many, many years of learn behind themselves.

I really don't know how usual Houdini user can find any Houdini job.

Can one of You professionals tell us: How did You found Houdini job or this is any mystery???

Greetz

[michael]

you'll never get a job just because you know an app...unless it's a very low level position...

I was a Maya guy, and just played around with the demo of Houdini 5 at home...then used the Apprentice versions....

when C.O.R.E started looking for people last year I wasn't sure if I should send my reel - there was only maya stuff on it - but I did and based on that work, and the fact that I was at least a little familiar with Houdini - I got a job...plus, getting a job in CG isn't just about your reel...

I'd say the market for Houdini users of all levels is just getting better and better - the DNA job postings are a good example - just stick with it...but on the other hand - if you don't like Houdini, or if you are just more comfortable using another app, then go with that....you have to enjoy your work on some level

[aracid]

hey all

i agree with baq, and share his caution about learning houdini, especially living in south africa, where i dont know any other houdini artists.

ive been a maya user for 4 years and always found a way to do what i want,

however since ive added houdini too my tool box, its really not like adding a "phillips screwdriver" to a well equiped tool box, its actually like buying a whole new electrical tool box with all sorts of things EXCEPT A HOW TO GUIDE, its just got toooooooo many cool features thats added a new extraordinary lever of flexibility to my 3d skills.

however lynbo's post is the way im approaching 3d these days,

and that is, not to become too emotional in choosing packages and rather see them for what they are"a means to an end, rather than the an end in its self"

anyways

in deciding what package would become my primary tool, i didnt read al the features and gadgets that are offered in all these high end packages, but rather allow my self to become partial towards the one that works for me. JUST dont jump into it when u have a demanding deadline :-)

btw, baq, if u feeling hesitant about learning the software, remember that big studios wont turn you down if u have an awesome real, just because u use a tool that they arnt partial towards, i could understand that if u use something out the box like combustion particle effects or poser marquettes, that u cant really claim to be the author of the artwork, and thats why with houdini, its great in the way that there is almost no way to be a copy cat, or to leach of something inheret in the tool, but it rather forces you to take technical steps to create really unique art.

anyways

theres my 2 SA cents

all the best

aracid

[starkhorn]

He's talking about

RenderMan Companion

Advanced RenderMan

Essential RenderMan Fast

Hi Folks,

I've just gotten the Texturing and Modelling, A Procedural Approach book and I was looking to get one of the RenderMan books as well.

Just wondering which of the Renderman books would be the best one for a beginner.

I guess the best one for a beginner would be the Essential RenderMan Fast ?

Cheers

Starkhorn

[TheDunadan]

I guess the book "Advanced RenderMan" is a good choice: There is lots of text to explain everything in quite detail and it really starts from scratch.

However it's not one of the books you read once and you understand everything / can apply the stuff to your own problems/ideas: for my part, when I first read it, I thought: "Now I'm going to write some wicked shaders"... finished reading some chapters I was somewhat confused/frustrated: I felt that I lacked some knowledge on general coding and my math was a bit rusty 2 years later when I didn't spent much thought on the book anymore, but got the basics of coding and due to univeristy learned quite a bit on the math part I picked up the book again, understood a fair bit more, was comfortable changing the example shaders and eventually learned enough for writing "basic" renderman / vmantra shaders.

The main trouble is that even if a book / tutorial explains all the syntax / math for a specific example it won't be of much use unless you want to reproduce the same thing. You somewhat really need a good background on linear algebra or it's not much fun really. The part I like about most CG related math, you don't have to manually solve it, but you only have to know why some function behaves this way and how. It's a pretty visual approach on mathematics and you have a nice direct feedback .

VOP's allow a more intuitive approach to shader creation, because you only use these nodes and don't have to worry about syntax related issues + you can always check the source code the VOP network creates later anyhow. Unless you want to implement new shading models, procedural patterns... I don't think you'll need to get into actual shader writing either really. Well, if you know already C or alike the syntax won't scare you and you might feel more comfortable writing the actual code with vi .

Once you understand how to create a VOP network that does the trick it won't take you long to move on the writing the shader code. Trying to understand the math & the syntax/coding simultaniously (like I did) wasn't much fun. Either way, my advise is to either learn the math part first or the coding/syntax part. Once you're comfortable with these things reading such books is more more enjoyable If you're already know a fair bit on these areas, grab the books and share some cool shaders with us

Btw. Jason wrote some nice introduction on shader writing here:

Jason's getting started on writing shaders in vmantra Tutorial

Jens