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musickent

can ATI RADEON 9700 Series supports Houdnini? Help

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according to the sidefx site, these are the supported graphics cards...

-------------------------------------

Certified Graphics Cards:

3Dlabs (Windows only):

Wildcat III 6110, 6210

Wildcat II 5000, 5110

Wildcat VP

ATI (Windows or Linux):

Fire GL2

Fire GL4

FireGL 8800

NVIDIA (Windows or Linux):

Quadro4 900 XGL, 750 XGL, 700 XGL, 550 XGL

Quadro2 Pro

Quadro2 MXR/EX

Geforce 2+

--------------------------------------------------

I am sure other cards probably work, but these are the ones that

sidefx supports...

david

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i havent been keeping up to date on radeon drivers, but im pretty sure there hasnt been much in the way of improvments. save yourself the headache, buy any of the cards daland posted...

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I tried a 9700 with Houdini. It seemed really fantastic at first, but then I tried to actually make something. It was pitifully slow, and I think it's an overlay (lack there of) problem. It takes forever for the interface to update and the card is constantly waiting for interface updates. I'm certain even an unmodified GeForce 2 would be faster with Houdini. Write ATI a letter telling them you are returning the card and tell them specificly why. Maybe if enough people demand improvements in Open GL support and at least GeForce level functionality in Pro applications ATI will eventually do something about it. It's a good card, it's a shame about the drivers. Either save yourself a hundred or two and get a GF4 or hold out for a GeForce FX. You could probably even get a decent entry level pro card for what the 9700 cost.

On the flipside, SoftQuadro 4 has been released. It works fantasticly on GeForce 3 and 4 cards and Houdini runs like butter.:D

http://nvworld.ru/docs/sq4e.html

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Are there any advantages to using Softquadro 4 on a Geforce 3 rather than simply using Rivatuner which gives you the locked features of the card anyway? I tried both and didn't notice a difference.

Also, I'm curious if Houdini would run better under win2k with patched geforce drivers compared to running under linux without driver patches. I'm planning on experimenting with linux regardless so I guess I'll find out soon enough anyways.

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Are there any advantages to using Softquadro 4 on a Geforce 3 rather than simply using Rivatuner which gives you the locked features of the card anyway? I tried both and didn't notice a difference.

Also, I'm curious if Houdini would run better under win2k with patched geforce drivers compared to running under linux without driver patches. I'm planning on experimenting with linux regardless so I guess I'll find out soon enough anyways.

I don't think there's an advantage. I stopped using Softquadro when Nvidia started blocking NVStrap. I just recently applied SoftQuadro 4 to a Geforce 3 and it works. If you can patch Nvidia's latest reference drivers with an old version of Softquadro you shouldn't notice a difference. If you are using drivers pre 30.XX, you will notice a nice performance boost in the latest Detonator 40.XX. I'm using Detonator 40.72 and it's a bit quicker than the 29.30 drivers I had patched before.

I have Linux with unpatched drivers and Win 2K with patched drivers on the same computer with a GeForce 3, and the patched drivers in Win 2K are MUCH better than the unpatched Linux drivers. I don't know if there is a way to patch the Linux drivers. If you know of one, please clue me in.

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I agree. The patched geforce drivers under Windows is faster than drivers in Linux. The only real slow down I've noticed in Houdini is the icons redrawing themselves quite poorly. Still it'll be fun to experiment with Houdini in this OS. Haven't had any luck finding a softquadro patch under linux.

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i have an oldie radeon 7200..... Houdini runs.... Very slow but runs nevertheless.... Geforce cards though are supported better by most 3d progs... So buy one of those....

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To Mcronin and draz

From time to time I see people posting about problems with Houdini's GUI

when running it on Gforce cards. Redrawing of buttons etc.

Do those problems go away with patched drivers?

How stable do those patched drivers perform? Is it as good as original Quadro?

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I was one of the people who posted on the Side FX forum about the slow interface redraw issue on GeForce cards and pointer problems shortly after the forum opened. This problem exists on both Linux and Windows using GeForce cards with unpatched drivers, but on Linux it doesn't seem quite as bad. After a while I actually got used to it. No recommendation I have seen solves the problem other than patching the drivers. Once you've patched your GeForce drivers and enabled overlays, the problem is completely solved, so it's probably an overlay issue. Geforce 3 cards with patched drivers perform on par the Quadro DCC, and from what I've seen, the GeForce 4 Ti 4600 is capable of performing as well as a Quadro 900. Read through the link I posted earlier in the thread for performance issues and some synthetic benchmarks. I've been using the patched drivers on a GeForce 3 for about a week running Apprentice non-stop, and haven't had a single issue come up. I think it's safe to say the patched drivers are pretty stable. Unfortunately Houdini runs so well in Windows now that I find myself using Linux less and less. :(

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I've seen people on NVWORLD forum asking the guy who writes Soft Quadro wether he is going to patch Linux drivers and he said that he is leaving it to those who wants and can to do it. He didn't say wether it means that he is going to provide his Windows Soft Quadro code or not.

(not that I can do it :( )

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by the way, my grahpics card is RADEON 9700 Series, Motherboard is IWILL DP400 Motherboard.

Is the problem i encoutnered caused only the graphics card? Nothing to do with the motherborad? :blink:

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It's deffinitely a graphics card (driver) problem. I pretty much narrowed it down to having hardware overlays enabled. Both of my computers have crappy (according to most hardware sites) mainboards with Ali chipsets; a FIC SD-11, and an IWILL XP333. The GeForce 2 and 3 cards in my computers run Houdini well in Win 2K and Linux with standard drivers (other than the second it takes to update the icons), and great with patched drivers (no problems what-so-ever). I put a friend's Radeon 9700 in the Iwill machine and it ran horribly. Worse than the GeForce 2 in my other computer with a processor that is half as fast. The 9700 seems great at first, Houdini is nice and quick for spinning lots of geometry in the viewports, but when you start working it gets very slow. Not only does it draw the icons in the toolbars slowly, but it also has problems updating the fields and sliders in the parameters pages as you make adjustments in your scene. Painting weights, and surface sculpting was completely unusable on geometry with even just a couple thousand polygons. I also noticed a lot of buffer tearing in Houdini, and nothing I did in the driver settings seemed to fix it. If you can stand working with your cooking controls always set to update on changes it may be bearable to use a Radeon 9700. Otherwise go with a GeForce, any Geforce, or an entry level pro card.

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I agree with everyone here that the ATI OpenGL drivers are generally lacking except for the FireGL cards (because they were produced by a different company that ATI bought). If you want to use seriously use OpenGL, then a serious OpenGL video card is required.

Even then on my GeForce 2 GTS, Houdini was running fine. The only thing I needed to do were:

- upgrade to the latest drivers on the nvidia website

- turn off mouse shadow on my win2K

- turn off smooth lines under the options in houdini

Note that I didn't bother to patch my drivers.

If you're stuck with a poor OpenGL card, then this post might help:

http://www.sidefx.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=15

dante

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@danteA:

Yep it was a suprise for us too. We had a review of video-boards:

> Ati FireGL 8800

> 3Dlabs VP870

> Nvidia Quatro 750 XGL

> Matrox Parhelia 512

We have test them with a few applications (including Houdini). I can ask for the result-sheet and post it here.

LEO

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