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Why Houdini Is Not The King(or Knight @least) Yet?

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i think some might be his own personal work, but most of those are professional shots from films, commercials, and music videos that he probably worked on with a team of people.. namely Framestore and Glassworks come to mind.. two companies i believe do some, if not the, best work out there..

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Marc, Marc, Marc... They just don't understand how to use this stuff  B)

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hahaha... funny you say that. I just realised who's site that is. Hey J, do you recognise that site? Especially the super old work.

Anyway, lets just say that Andy was one of the people who I was basing my knowledge of paintFX off of.

Besides, I couldn't find one mention of paintFX on his site. The maya tree is awesome, but he doesn't say he did it with paintFX...

l8r

M

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hahaha... funny you say that. I just realised who's site that is. Hey J, do you recognise that site? Especially the super old work.

Anyway, lets just say that Andy was one of the people who I was basing my knowledge of paintFX off of.

Besides, I couldn't find one mention of paintFX on his site. The maya tree is awesome, but he doesn't say he did it with paintFX...

l8r

M

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I have been this last summer in a conference from an artist from Framestore about the tree comercial.

He said that the leaves and the finer branch have been made with paintFX, for me wa surprising because the tree support very close planes very well, i though that paintFX only worked well for far planes, because in reallity they are 2d images.

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hahaha... funny you say that. I just realised who's site that is. Hey J, do

Besides, I couldn't find one mention of paintFX on his site. The maya tree is awesome, but he doesn't say he did it with paintFX...

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He does say that the hairy truck things were done with paintFX :ph34r:

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aren't/weren't worth much (this was a few versions ago).

maybe in the prehistoric maya times they weren't... I don't know. But now they r really usefull for people who know what they want.

I made many 'nature stuff' using paintFX and also many 'fantastic'.

This is one tree I made in about 15 minutes using mostly default settings:

http://www.rafal.stnet.pl/tree2.jpg

geez... this is just a tool - I changed my opinion - I don't love it, I don't hate it. Did U ever heard that any car mechanic said: 'uuhh I love this hammer' or 'oh my good I just fallen in love in this screwdriver' ?

for me wa surprising because the tree support very close planes very well, i though that paintFX only worked well for far planes, because in reallity they are 2d images.

U can convert this paintFx to polygons

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He does say that the hairy truck things were done with paintFX  :ph34r:

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No this is Maya fur rendered using Mental Ray, i think.

The conference covers the hairy truck too, but it was focused in the rig and animation part, he didn't explain much about the rendering.

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No this is Maya fur rendered using Mental Ray, i think.

The conference covers the hairy truck too, but it was focused in the rig and animation part, he didn't explain much about the rendering.

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If you follow the link to the Framestore site is says this

Rather than using the traditional method

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i would definitely say that artists have a favorite tool/instrument from their set.. i'd be willing to bet a mechanic would too.. when i did a lot more traditional artwork, i really got in to soft pastels and after a while i wouldn't touch another brand except schmincke.. so smooth and creamy while allowing layer after layer to be applied.. nothing ever came as close to them in my opinion (sennelier got close, but i still preferred schmincke).. in fact, when i would be able to afford a good set of schmincke pastels i'd feel so much better about being able to use them that i probably produced better works because of it.. and i know it was because having that specific tool allowed me to be more confident while working.. other pastels would keep myself reconsidering a move due to inherent limitations.. i would also say that this example could easily be used to discuss a piece of software..

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He does say that the hairy truck things were done with paintFX  :ph34r:

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Aye, fair enough. Well it sounds like if they can now be converted to poly's then they're alot more useful than they once were, which is cool. Thanks for the info Rafal.

As for me, I still won't use em, but hey... that's just me :).

M

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Guys, why is the thread deviating from the actual topic?Do you guys mind keeping the discussion on track?

Aye, fair enough. Well it sounds like if they can now be converted to poly's then they're alot more useful than they once were, which is cool. Thanks for the info Rafal.

As for me, I still won't use em, but hey... that's just me :).

M

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Guys, why is the thread deviating from the actual topic?Do you guys mind keeping the discussion on track?

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okay, so there was a question about why houdini isn't the king of all software.... well here's my $0.02.

With Houdini you have to think more than you do with other packages, always have, always will. This aspect alone makes it 'harder' for a user to sit down and do what they want in a fast manner. Now this may not be the best thing in the world and the real key is often missed on those who sit down and try to do what package "B" does in half the time. You see, the real key is that you don't have to sit down and "live" with that result. I don't know how many times I've done some stuff in SOPs or CHOPs to get around an issue with a project at the 11th hour.

Sure they don't have a 'hair' system built in for everyone to use. It doesn't mean that you can't cook one up yourself. We have ours HKD'd for houdini and I'm sure we aren't alone. It doesn't mean that you can't cook one up yourself without the HDK. Sure it will take some time and effort and it is frustrating to think that an artist would have to do all that first before they make a furry toe. However, I think that SESI is trying to build a solid base for all aspects before they start making specific things.

Really Houdini is great engine for you to use and build your own car around. It doesn't make decisions for you (for the most part) but you have to be aware of what you are doing.

That's my thought anyway.. i'm sure it is different from others but I've seen it time and time again... people from other studios, other packages sit down and start to use Houdini... sure they get frustrated ( I would too if I had to learn a new package ), some people can get over those frustrations some can't... in the end those who survive find that they would never go back to another package. We had over 350 people in the studio using Houdini as their primary package. Their experience levels varied from newbies to 10yr (or more) veterans.

I'm not saying Houdini doesn't have its issues. It has a few, but the one thing I really respect about SESI is their dedication and efficiency to correct and adjust things in the package. I've never seen that from any other package, not like SESI does.

Okay I should stop before I hit a limit on characters for a reply :)

-k

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I am complitely agree with thekenny.

I am now preparing a Houdini course for a school, i have teached Houdini to some Maya users, and allways the main problem is the frustations, due to two main reasons:

-First the complitely different philosophy between Houdini and any other animation package.

-Second: Houdini is like RenderMan, very powerful, maybe the box, but out of the box you need to develop your own tools to begin to get good results, examples: shaders, fur system, fluids, etc ...

So the learning curve is very high at the beggining and this is like a wall for many people.

Anyway i still think that anybody that overcome this learning curve will say the same:

Houdini is the best, but it needs time :)

And following the other them, and hopefully finishing it, yes Marc, PaintFX can now (from version 6 I think)be translated to polygons, this is the way that renders like Mental Ray, RenderMan and Maxwell can render these effects.

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You are painfully right with the "frustrations" word :)

"Those who survive" is also very well aimed.

It is sometimes very hard not to scream while searching for a solution of the task which is easy in other software.

Houdini requires most patience of all software and that's why many people give up.

About paint FX, can't a similar thing be reproduced with otl's copied on curves or painted point selections? If only we could sketch. Maybe not with th same easyness and efficiency but I think it's possible.

Of course It'd be very tedious to create such amount of things from foliage to nebulas but if a big collective of users made an arrangement that each will create one... :) I can begin with flowers and trees (actually I have already began).

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It is sometimes very hard not to scream while searching for a solution of the task which is easy in other software.

Houdini requires most patience of all software and that's why many people give up.

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I think it is true to say that Houdini is still aiming at the bigger shops or the smaller shops with high td abilities. Hopefully at some point they will be able to devote more resources to packaging up pre-built solutions that can be used as a "first" stop or for quick solutions on jobs with tight deadlines.

That way you'd get everything you get in package B but with the ability to change and customise the solutions.

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Hopefully at some point they will be able to devote more resources to packaging up pre-built solutions that can be used as a "first" stop or for quick solutions on jobs with tight deadlines.

That way you'd get everything you get in package B but with the ability to change and customise the solutions.

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Point.

Vast shop library with corresponding VOPs...mmm,

this should come first.

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I think it is true to say that Houdini is still aiming at the bigger shops or the smaller shops with high td abilities. Hopefully at some point they will be able to devote more resources to packaging up pre-built solutions that can be used as a "first" stop or for quick solutions on jobs with tight deadlines.

That way you'd get everything you get in package B but with the ability to change and customise the solutions.

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This is one of the problems, Houdini is aimed to big shops, and then is very difficult to introduce it in middle-little shops

Many times i think about Houdini like a almost done package, it has a great modelling environment (when you control it) but needs more tools and improve many of them, it has (maybe) the best shading tools, but needs more and better shaders out of the box, it has a great compositor, but needs better basic composition tools, etc ...

It has the basis but now needs more features to make this basis useful in a short time, otherwise is very difficult to the little shops to use Houdini, not for his workflow or phylosophy but because they need a developemnt force which they have not.

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