Houdini 16 Wishlist

[LaidlawFX]

3 minutes ago, marty said:

I meant the reason why you think it's the cache - AFAIK from months of helping debug the horrible stuck geo in H13/14 is that Houdini does not know to un-draw the object - it gets confused as what is meant to be un-displayed. So the cache is fine, the knowing what to de-draw is the problem.

That is something I would have to look at code to define, you can only backward debug soo much when you can't see the relevant output data of a black box component. I'm going to guess for each previewed display node in sops, or an array of objects, a buffer gets stored of that data from each display flag to be displayed. When you are flipping back and forth through network panes, or have multiple ones open, that array of pointers gets borked. I'm guessing at some point that array gets refreshed, this is where I'm guesing the refresh needs to happen, as one pointer in the array stops being refreshed.  Maybe it's because there is a limit on the number of those pointers before it adds the to next block of memory say 16/32/64/256, etc. Say it does a partial refresh of the array to clear out data, or in the swapping it goes back and forth in those pointers, and it leaves a partial array that is now disconnected.

Honestly, it's hard to guess what the culprit is of the code with out having it in front of you with a repro case. Whether you need to reset the buffer on all the geometry cache, the pointer arrays to the buffer, or what ever else the equivalent is of reseting the viewport does. A big clear button that says Refresh Viewport would be fine, then we don't have to say cache,.  lol   

[Guest tar]

Take into account the enormous flexibility of the Houdini UI in all the ways it can be configured, and, that fiddling with the refresh code is not something to be done willy nilly, means that SideFx needs 100% repro steps to even start to fix these issues.  

I do think it's important but other bugs are significant too: shortcut keys failing to work on OsX, and, undo failing after changing from points to edges to prims, #75708 & #75661 so I'm keen to see if anyone else is ready to step into the ring for the stuck viewport bugs    

 

[LaidlawFX]

32 minutes ago, marty said:

Take into account the enormous flexibility of the Houdini UI in all the ways it can be configured, and, that fiddling with the refresh code is not something to be done willy nilly, means that SideFx needs 100% repro steps to even start to fix these issues.  

I do think it's important but other bugs are significant too: shortcut keys failing to work on OsX, and, undo failing after changing from points to edges to prims, #75708 & #75661 so I'm keen to see if anyone else is ready to step into the ring for the stuck viewport bugs    

 

Picky, picky,  I'm all in on Houdini Engine at the moment. Yeah please all, submit 100% repro of the Viewport Bug. I will pay in beer(if you're in the PNW).

[malexander]

Yeah, it's not a GPU cache problem. It's the scene manager which is getting confused, probably by a network change, because the rules for what should be displayed and what shouldn't are ridiculously complicated (once you factor in all the different visibility flags, subnets, modes, nettypes, ways to change visibility, etc). That's also the reason that its very difficult to get reproducible steps.

[Solitude]

3 hours ago, malexander said:

Yeah, it's not a GPU cache problem. It's the scene manager which is getting confused, probably by a network change, because the rules for what should be displayed and what shouldn't are ridiculously complicated (once you factor in all the different visibility flags, subnets, modes, nettypes, ways to change visibility, etc). That's also the reason that its very difficult to get reproducible steps.

I know that you know more about it than I do -- and that's great that you guys are tracking it down (non reproducible bugs are a bitch!) -- but I used to be able to DELETE all objects in my scene, and still have the geometry visible in the viewport that I could rotate around (usually volumes, not always).  Now, I haven't had this happen in a long time, but it used to be a very common occurrence.  I'm guessing there is/was two separate problems that look very similar, and maybe you guys already fixed that one. But the fact that the two issues have similar symptoms make it hard to tell the difference.  If I get 'stuck geometry' I don't experiment with it anymore, I just close the viewer and open a new one. I'll see what happens next time if I delete the objects.  

[malexander]

1 hour ago, Solitude said:

I know that you know more about it than I do -- and that's great that you guys are tracking it down (non reproducible bugs are a bitch!) -- but I used to be able to DELETE all objects in my scene, and still have the geometry visible in the viewport that I could rotate around (usually volumes, not always).  Now, I haven't had this happen in a long time, but it used to be a very common occurrence.  I'm guessing there is/was two separate problems that look very similar, and maybe you guys already fixed that one. But the fact that the two issues have similar symptoms make it hard to tell the difference.  If I get 'stuck geometry' I don't experiment with it anymore, I just close the viewer and open a new one. I'll see what happens next time if I delete the objects.  

What basically happens is that the viewport object that encapsulates the node's viewport data becomes de-synchronized from the node, and doesn't receive notifications anymore. Then it just sort of sticks around forever.

[animatrix]

1 hour ago, malexander said:

What basically happens is that the viewport object that encapsulates the node's viewport data becomes de-synchronized from the node, and doesn't receive notifications anymore. Then it just sort of sticks around forever.

Are there still plans to implement a more granular notification system for nodes so Houdini knows more about what's being updated, etc so it doesn't have to refresh everything?

I remember reading it on SESI forums.

[hatrick]

even 15.5. brought great advancements to the crowd system this looks pretty cool. check the CCT stack i.e.

http://www.basefount.com/miarmy-47.html

[Solitude]

2 hours ago, malexander said:

What basically happens is that the viewport object that encapsulates the node's viewport data becomes de-synchronized from the node, and doesn't receive notifications anymore. Then it just sort of sticks around forever.

Thanks for clarifying! I have a decent grasp on things, but I like knowing how the software is set up and works behind the scenes.  ...Now just stop letting the nodes and viewport de-sync.    

[Guest tar]

If we could get the stuck-viewport people to wear GoPros we'd be set for reproducible steps

[Skybar]

47 minutes ago, marty said:

If we could get the stuck-viewport people to wear GoPros we'd be set for reproducible steps

Haha I'd gladly wear one! Then you can hear me being grumpy and saying bad words in swedish. Sesi should start a program for that, lending out GoPros to tackle these kind of bugs. I mean, why not 

[LaidlawFX]

Maya going after Houdini Engine and C4D 

http://www.autodesk.com/products/maya/features/motion-graphics/motion-graphics

We need demo's that compete with this, and show how this can be an non-black box method with Houdini Engine. Perhaps a library of Houdini Engine HDAs, or shelf of Motion Graphics Tools for the new users. 

Also the additional preferences, presets, that they showed, a few one uppers.

[Daskerdaks]

Improvements to the dopesheet - the dopesheet feels like something out of 1992 - When zooming and scaling and moving keyframes it doesn't provide proper feedback. I suggest taking some cues from Cinema 4D's Animation editor.

[Guest tar]

17 minutes ago, Daskerdaks said:

Improvements to the dopesheet - the dopesheet feels like something out of 1992 - When zooming and scaling and moving keyframes it doesn't provide proper feedback. I suggest taking some cues from Cinema 4D's Animation editor.

For the vast majority of us who don't use C4D, can you link to an example or explain this in more detail.

[Daskerdaks]

32 minutes ago, marty said:

For the vast majority of us who don't use C4D, can you link to an example or explain this in more detail.

I actually much prefer Houdinis Graph view to Cinema 4Ds, so all in all the animation editor is quite good in Houdini, however, the Dopesheet feels very strange to me. Maybe I'm using it incorrectly with my "C4D brain", but in my view the Dopesheet is a kind of a keyframe editor, where one should be able to shuffle around (sometimes large groups) of keyframes - kind of working from a macro perspective.

My logic says:

Graph editor = detail

Dope = overview

But when I zoom out/in to get an overview, keyframes disappear and appear randomly - it doesn't scale properly to a macro level. Also the window contents do not update live when scrolling/panning/zooming, it only refreshes after mouse up - which tells me this is a very "legacy" part of H.

How do you "old school Houdini pros" shuffle around groups of keyframes? Or do you simply do your animation else where and then import? Is there some other secret Houdini tools I've missed?

It seems to me that Sidefx are hard at work on improving the traditional animation features (with the short film project with Shed), so perhaps we will already see improvements in 16. :-)

Edited June 2, 2016 by Daskerdaks

[Guest tar]

The zooming should work, so that sounds like a bug to send into SideFx - for moving blocks of keyframes, that all works in the Animation Editor graph, select keyframe and press Y for the transform handle, updates happen in realtime - so the idea of realtime updating the dopesheet is good. Send an Rfe into SideFx so they know about it.

 

Thanks!

[bunker]

documentation with a dark background option, same for Odforce would be good too.
Am I the only one working on the same floor as the lighting/comp artists?

[LaidlawFX]

10 hours ago, bunker said:

documentation with a dark background option, same for Odforce would be good too.
Am I the only one working on the same floor as the lighting/comp artists?

+1 hahahahahahahaha...

However did they put the lighting artist right next to a giant bay of windows, that now must be permanently closed?  

[hatrick]

On 2.6.2016 at 7:56 PM, LaidlawFX said:

Maya going after Houdini Engine and C4D 

http://www.autodesk.com/products/maya/features/motion-graphics/motion-graphics

We need demo's that compete with this, and show how this can be an non-black box method with Houdini Engine. Perhaps a library of Houdini Engine HDAs, or shelf of Motion Graphics Tools for the new users. 

Also the additional preferences, presets, that they showed, a few one uppers.

would be great if sesi promoted houdini for MG a bit more. maybe another section on the website beside Games and Film? the line between graphics and vfx seems to get thinner. There are such great minds around, captured by the Houdini way of doing things. Check Simon Holmedal!! @mvsm. Although that might be a special case... Most of the people i know working in that field prefer fast n easy to use like mograph. so a serious set of mg tools would defenitely help to convince people. (to find out whats possible afterwards:)

[edward]

On 6/1/2016 at 3:24 PM, hatrick said:

even 15.5. brought great advancements to the crowd system this looks pretty cool. check the CCT stack i.e.

http://www.basefount.com/miarmy-47.html

What is "CCT" ?