toadstorm Posted June 16, 2018 Author Share Posted June 16, 2018 You're losing sight of the bigger picture here, which is to create art. FX TD's are by definition going to be on the technical side of things, but their goal is to facilitate the creation of art. The final image is what matters, 99% of the time. People with engineering mindsets sometimes like to get caught up in the "elegance" or "physical correctness" of their solutions, but that stuff rarely (if ever) matters in this field. Rotating an object is conceptually a simple thing, but it turns out that there's quite a bit of math involved. Is it really insulting one's intelligence to not assume that every artist is willing to study linear algebra to rotate a cube on its local axis? I do know how to do this, and I still don't want to have to write that code out every single time. It's a pain in the ass! Creating a transform matrix, converting to a quaternion, slerping between the two quaternions, remembering the order of multiplication... remembering and executing these steps every time gets in the way of exploration and play. Besides, all of that is only possible because SESI wrote a library of functions to handle this. Should we be expected to also write our own C++ libraries to interpolate quaternions? Should we be using Houdini at all, instead of writing our own visual effects software? Who engineered the processor that you're using to compute all this? This is a rabbit hole you'll never escape from. Anyways, Entagma and MOPs are not officially affiliated at all, so Entagma's core mission of reading white papers so that you don't have to is unlikely to change. 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fencer Posted June 16, 2018 Share Posted June 16, 2018 What next? Plugins))) I ran away from this sh#t in 3ds max. To speak seriously, yeah it's looks ok, if it's help to atract more people from mograph and help them to cross first stage of using houdini. In perspective it's not good, all can be done with basic knowledge and give you more flexibility and understanding how to change or inprove it. This year I have seen a lot of newcomers, and this is awesome but, a lot of them don't want to learn basics, what is it? laziness, fear, don't understanding main ideas of houdini or now nobody wants to spend months to learn new software? Just wanna say, yes houdini is not easy software to learn, yes it takes time, but believe me you will be rewarded, we have one of the best community and a lot of good tutorials, just keep learn! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noobini Posted June 16, 2018 Share Posted June 16, 2018 6 hours ago, dyei nightmare said: I fear the possibility that entagma stops teaching solutions based on vex programming, and instead, starts giving solutions based on this philosophy of cinema 4d focused on designers, we, houdini users are not exactly designers. newsflash....Entagma looked at C4D splinesweep....and created a Houdini VEX tutorial for it. The sky is falling......the sky is falling ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dyei nightmare Posted June 16, 2018 Share Posted June 16, 2018 (edited) 58 minutes ago, toadstorm said: You're losing sight of the bigger picture here, which is to create art. FX TD's are by definition going to be on the technical side of things, but their goal is to facilitate the creation of art. The final image is what matters, 99% of the time. People with engineering mindsets sometimes like to get caught up in the "elegance" or "physical correctness" of their solutions, but that stuff rarely (if ever) matters in this field. Rotating an object is conceptually a simple thing, but it turns out that there's quite a bit of math involved. Is it really insulting one's intelligence to not assume that every artist is willing to study linear algebra to rotate a cube on its local axis? I do know how to do this, and I still don't want to have to write that code out every single time. It's a pain in the ass! Creating a transform matrix, converting to a quaternion, slerping between the two quaternions, remembering the order of multiplication... remembering and executing these steps every time gets in the way of exploration and play. Besides, all of that is only possible because SESI wrote a library of functions to handle this. Should we be expected to also write our own C++ libraries to interpolate quaternions? Should we be using Houdini at all, instead of writing our own visual effects software? Who engineered the processor that you're using to compute all this? This is a rabbit hole you'll never escape from. Anyways, Entagma and MOPs are not officially affiliated at all, so Entagma's core mission of reading white papers so that you don't have to is unlikely to change. yes, but you are missing the fact that a lot of us are nerds who wants to do things dificult hahaha, is our only proud haha, but in more serious terms, my real concern is that entagma keeps their hard vex stuff coming, they shoulnt think that we prefer mograph over vex... because vex stuff is what defines this program as bad or pedantic as it sounds haha, my argument is that they shouldnt forget the vex language-fans Edited June 16, 2018 by dyei nightmare Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dyei nightmare Posted June 16, 2018 Share Posted June 16, 2018 12 minutes ago, Noobini said: newsflash....Entagma looked at C4D splinesweep....and created a Houdini VEX tutorial for it. The sky is falling......the sky is falling ! thats the keyword here: "vex" and yes, i saw it and i want more vex based stuff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dyei nightmare Posted June 16, 2018 Share Posted June 16, 2018 (edited) 32 minutes ago, fencer said: What next? Plugins))) I ran away from this sh#t in 3ds max. To speak seriously, yeah it's looks ok, if it's help to atract more people from mograph and help them to cross first stage of using houdini. In perspective it's not good, all can be done with basic knowledge and give you more flexibility and understanding how to change or inprove it. This year I have seen a lot of newcomers, and this is awesome but, a lot of them don't want to learn basics, what is it? laziness, fear, don't understanding main ideas of houdini or now nobody wants to spend months to learn new software? Just wanna say, yes houdini is not easy software to learn, yes it takes time, but believe me you will be rewarded, we have one of the best community and a lot of good tutorials, just keep learn! yes i think the same... lazyness, and i dont want this software becoming a sort of C4D or 3max (oh the horror), only because some people is lazy to learn the hard way, yes its hard, yes is a mistery to learn this, and is so complex to do a simple sunset scene, but thats why im love with this software Edited June 16, 2018 by dyei nightmare Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moedeldiho Posted June 16, 2018 Share Posted June 16, 2018 Just to make this clear: Manu & I (Entagma) are not planning on changing the content we're creating nor our format. Rest assured there will be VEX tutorials. Also if you feel you need an extra dose of VEX - we're just currently running a VEX only course on our Patreon Cheers, Mo 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dyei nightmare Posted June 16, 2018 Share Posted June 16, 2018 20 minutes ago, moedeldiho said: Just to make this clear: Manu & I (Entagma) are not planning on changing the content we're creating nor our format. Rest assured there will be VEX tutorials. Also if you feel you need an extra dose of VEX - we're just currently running a VEX only course on our Patreon Cheers, Mo thanks a lot i will check out keep up the amazing vex content Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noobini Posted June 16, 2018 Share Posted June 16, 2018 so because of MOPs...now some technically minded people 'fear'...well hey, go ahead, live your life in fear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juraj Posted June 16, 2018 Share Posted June 16, 2018 Cool work guys, thanks for sharing and for the effort Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesper Rahlff Posted June 17, 2018 Share Posted June 17, 2018 @toadstorm and @moedeldiho Thanks so much for this. These are very nice tools! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesper Rahlff Posted June 17, 2018 Share Posted June 17, 2018 21 hours ago, dyei nightmare said: yes i think the same... lazyness, and i dont want this software becoming a sort of C4D or 3max (oh the horror), only because some people is lazy to learn the hard way, yes its hard, yes is a mistery to learn this, and is so complex to do a simple sunset scene, but thats why im love with this software why are you even discussing this? someone took the time to create tools to make certain things easier, and you are arguing this will make people lazy and the tools are bad? remember that lazyness is a choice. If you do not want to be lazy then dont use the tools! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noobini Posted June 17, 2018 Share Posted June 17, 2018 seems like the Group in MOPs_Transform_Modifier is not working ? Attached is illustration, the left branch is the desired result, while on the right, done in a different way...using Group in the MOPs_Transform_Modifier, it doesn't have any effect. So the idea is, even if ALL points have theirs @mops_falloff established, I thought if I restrict the effect to my Group selection in the Transform_Modifier...it should work ? (and yeah the gotcha with group is it has to be points since MOPs work on packed points principle) MOPs_Transform_Modifier_Group.hipnc 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daryl Dunlap Posted June 18, 2018 Share Posted June 18, 2018 On 6/16/2018 at 6:19 PM, dyei nightmare said: thanks a lot i will check out keep up the amazing vex content Wait a second, I was just about to say, if you want Vex course work, you can pay exclusively for that on the Entagma Patreon - but, it sounds like you are not currently subscribed to the Entagma Patreon, but are simply consuming their "free" content!? Now, MOPs is some additional "free" content from the likes of Entagma, and your argument is that, "Hey, no, dont waste time creating free things I wont use, please only create free things that I want"? I cant believe you have the selfishness to even type such a comment - let alone try and defend it. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dyei nightmare Posted June 18, 2018 Share Posted June 18, 2018 6 hours ago, Jesper Rahlff said: why are you even discussing this? someone took the time to create tools to make certain things easier, and you are arguing this will make people lazy and the tools are bad? remember that lazyness is a choice. If you do not want to be lazy then dont use the tools! no, my point was, what fortunatelly, Moritz confirmed, that they wont stop to do the clasic vex tutorials Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dyei nightmare Posted June 18, 2018 Share Posted June 18, 2018 (edited) 36 minutes ago, Daryl Dunlap said: Wait a second, I was just about to say, if you want Vex course work, you can pay exclusively for that on the Entagma Patreon - but, it sounds like you are not currently subscribed to the Entagma Patreon, but are simply consuming their "free" content!? Now, MOPs is some additional "free" content from the likes of Entagma, and your argument is that, "Hey, no, dont waste time creating free things I wont use, please only create free things that I want"? I cant believe you have the selfishness to even type such a comment - let alone try and defend it. no, my point was: dont stop to do the classic vex stuf, and fortunatelly they wont i didnt knew about that course, surelly ill throw an eye to it Edited June 18, 2018 by dyei nightmare Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noobini Posted June 18, 2018 Share Posted June 18, 2018 11 minutes ago, dyei nightmare said: no, my point was: dont stop to do the classic vex stuf, and fortunatelly they wont i didnt knew about that course, surelly ill throw an eye to it nothing wrong with asking for VEX tutorials to continue...but then you had to take potshots at other people along they way insinuating they are lazy ? So you use a 'procedural' software such as Houdini...what would you say to a traditional modeller who says: What ? Houdini does procedural modelling ? Pooo poo...you lazy modellers....real modellers do thing the hard way (coz they want to)....real modellers move each vert/edge/face around one at a time...not procedurally !!! Why you so lazy ? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dyei nightmare Posted June 18, 2018 Share Posted June 18, 2018 (edited) 38 minutes ago, Noobini said: nothing wrong with asking for VEX tutorials to continue...but then you had to take potshots at other people along they way insinuating they are lazy ? So you use a 'procedural' software such as Houdini...what would you say to a traditional modeller who says: What ? Houdini does procedural modelling ? Pooo poo...you lazy modellers....real modellers do thing the hard way (coz they want to)....real modellers move each vert/edge/face around one at a time...not procedurally !!! Why you so lazy ? organic modeling is not easy, nor procedural modeling, we know how procedural can be hard organic modeling is not easy neither, organic modeling is a damn puzzle!! the rotating edges workflow feels like you need a master degree to do that!!! and zbrush basically you need to be an sketch artist, hard surface modeling is maybe a little less complex, Edited June 18, 2018 by dyei nightmare Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noobini Posted June 18, 2018 Share Posted June 18, 2018 20 minutes ago, dyei nightmare said: organic modeling is not easy, nor procedural modeling, we know how procedural can be hard organic modeling is not easy neither, organic modeling is a damn puzzle!! the rotating edges workflow feels like you need a master degree to do that!!! and zbrush basically you need to be an sketch artist, hard surface modeling is maybe a little less complex, so if I release this for FREE would you accuse people 'using' it as lazy ? Why don't 'lazy' ppl learn to model this manually ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dyei nightmare Posted June 18, 2018 Share Posted June 18, 2018 (edited) 16 minutes ago, Noobini said: would you accuse people 'using' it as lazy ? Why don't 'lazy' ppl learn to model this manually ? i would not say that modeling based on moving vertex by vertex is lazyness, because it isnt, what i think is lazyness is people wanting to be vfxtd or video game developers without programing (seriously, that people exist) , i dont blame them, maybe every people needs to find their niche? maybe every person needs to find what he/she enjoy and at what can be good at?, because there are spots for artists also on that field... i was web developer some years ago, i ended literally pulling my hair because i realized that i hate it, but, i found that i enjoy programing for artistic purposes, and movies stuff.. so here i am basically i dont blame some one for not being programer, not everybody has to be a code guru neither, i encourage people to find their niche and tastes and be happy at it Edited June 18, 2018 by dyei nightmare Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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